Schrade Schf43 Jessica X VS Bk4 VS Bk9 VS Bk21 Chopping

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jonny1280

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
5,896
I always see the Fiskars pack axe (the tiny one) and I wonder how it would perform. Seems like it's too short to be anything other than a basher of wood instead of chopping.
Also, regarding the Fiskars Mike posted a pic of; is that a splitting head or a felling(?) head, or does it matter? I always thought slimmer axe heads were used for felling and chopping, and the thicker heads were used for splitting. ??

I've often wondered about the tiny pack axe too.
I'll tell ya, the X7 performs well above it's weight!
At first I thought the hollow plastic handle was kinda cheap and gimmicky, but it really absorbs a LOT of shock.
I thought the same thing about the sheath with the handle, but it's actually pretty handy and holds tightly.
 
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
7,126
I always see the Fiskars pack axe (the tiny one) and I wonder how it would perform. Seems like it's too short to be anything other than a basher of wood instead of chopping.
Also, regarding the Fiskars Mike posted a pic of; is that a splitting head or a felling(?) head, or does it matter? I always thought slimmer axe heads were used for felling and chopping, and the thicker heads were used for splitting. ??

I've often wondered about the tiny pack axe too.
I'll tell ya, the X7 performs well above it's weight!
At first I thought the hollow plastic handle was kinda cheap and gimmicky, but it really absorbs a LOT of shock.
I thought the same thing about the sheath with the handle, but it's actually pretty handy and holds tightly.

Tom, it's he X-27 Super Splitter. It's not technically a maul, but the bit is really wedge shaped and combined with the long handle that thing splits better than a maul, IMO, because it's MUCH lighter than a maul - and just about as effective.

As for the X-7 pack axe, just get one - or two or three. Light, VERY useful, cheap....and all the things Jonny said. What's not to like? Plus, they even throw pretty well.
 
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
5,467
Tom, it's he X-27 Super Splitter. It's not technically a maul, but the bit is really wedge shaped and combined with the long handle that thing splits better than a maul, IMO, because it's MUCH lighter than a maul - and just about as effective.

As for the X-7 pack axe, just get one - or two or three. Light, VERY useful, cheap....and all the things Jonny said. What's not to like? Plus, they even throw pretty well.

Aight. Will do. LOL
 
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
7,126
Better yet, get one of each model.

That's kinda what I did. I have a couple of the X7's, an X25 and an X27. If I was a completist, I'd be feeling a little uneasy not having one each of the X11 & X17. Oh, well. My felling axe....is an 18" chainsaw ;). But it doesn't split very good.
 

DerekH

Handsome According to my Mother
Moderator
Joined
Nov 18, 2010
Messages
6,094
Here's my limited two cents, whatever that may be worth:

I have long been a believer in the user adapting to the tool. Knowledge on how to use a tool, regardless of shape, size, etc... is what drives a tool from being useful into excelling at whatever particular task(s) it is applied. That being said, I think too many people try to adapt the tool to the user and in the process overspecialize in one area or another and as a result end up losing performance in other areas. I have used a lot of knives. Anyone that has been to Ethan's has as he lays out a metric butt-ton of knives for people to play with when they visit, and play with them they do. I have seen others more knowledgeable and experienced use many knives, and I see several issues with the JX over the other knives shown.

1. While I firmly believe that one must adapt to the tool, the overall design of the tool is going to limit how easily someone can do that. The JX has an awful lot of handle to move around, especially when you get into some unorthodox holds and doing detail work. I don't see it excelling in any detail oriented tasks that would require a person to move their hands around alot to fiddle things into place or angle it just so, etc... Just so much dang handle to get around, and it has a giant hook on the end to catch the sleeve or whatever when you do try to navigate it.

2. Someone earlier mentioned how it would be difficult to carry with so much weight in the handle because it is so big. With kydex and the like, one can compensate for handle length by adding an extension to attach it (the sheath) to the belt, but usually that flows in line with the overall shape of the knife, and that couldn't be done here. I can kydex alot of things, but for me, to make a sheath for the JX, it would be difficult to achieve something that I would want to carry because I honestly can't compensate for that amount of cant AND handle length in a sheath. Not in a way that would work for me. Personal preference mind you, but I am sure that my thoughts are not too far off from what a lot of others would run into.

3. A knife is a knife is a knife. So when you grab a normal knife, someone that has any experience at all in using a knife would already have a basic idea of how to use said knife. Applies to the BK9. Applies slightly less to the BK21. Less so with the BK4 as that one does require some very specific technique to really use effectively, but the JX looks like it would have a vastly different learning curve than any of the others shown. And let me throw out this example from about 3 gatherings back: We had a chopping competition, and it was the most participated one we have had there. Something like almost 20 people, which is a goodly number. I took my kid and suckered him into competing. He didn't have alot of experience, yet even so was able to use a BK21 fairly simply and cut through the log in a respectable time. He didn't come in last. He got tired, sure, but he still managed to use it and use it well. I don't think he would have the same luck with the JX because of all of it's differences. The kid that did win used the BK21 and it was his first time. It was intuitive to use. Again, I don't think he would have done as well using the JX.

4. Versatility. Let's look beyond the typical tasks, and look at the outlandish and unusual. A knife, as a tool, is going to be used to cut. Sometimes it will fall into a cutting action that fits a very definitive task, like chopping, but how often do you use a knife in a manner that isn't as cut and dry as that? We have all used our knives in ways that they were probably not intended, or ways that are not very clearly a simple cutting action, and overall design is going to play into how well the knife does with those tasks. As I said above, I have seen a lot of people better than me with a knife do some incredible things with a knife, and I cannot see them achieving the same level of results with the JX that they could any of the others, and for a multitude of reasons.

Moose is hands down one of the most knowledgeable people I have ever had the pleasure to watch use a blade for a variety of tasks, some fairly standard, but many not. He has a bajillion threads on using knives for so many things, and I have several of them permanently bookmarked because one can learn such a great deal from them. This one in particular stands out to me though, and has long been my reference on a great many tasks and uses:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/820695-BK2-and-Some-Dirt-Time-((PIC-HEAVY))

Now imagine trying to use the JX for those tasks. It just doesn't seem like it would work as well, and it would definitely wear a guy out quicker. BK9 would swap right out with the BK2 he uses. So would a lot of other knives not made by Becker.

Guyon, reigning chopping champion at Half Moon Ridge, I have seen decimate every type of wood that has been thrown down on that mountain with ease, skill, and fantastic technique. I don't see him achieving the same thing with a JX. And that is at chopping. But hand him a BK9, and he will outperform darn near every other tool available.

We have had a lot of comparison threads over the years. and a lot of other tools that were "better" in one way or another. Ultimately the complete package is what determines how good a knife is. Heck, here is a chopping comparison thread Moose did way back when where the 9 won against the RBK (machete model from ye olden times) because of all of those factors. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/784781-Beckerhead-Chop-Test-at-Half-Moon-Ridge

I hope this doesn't come across as a slight, because it most certainly is not meant that way, but I don't know you. I don't know what your level of experience is, I don't know how much knowledge you have in the realm of outdoor themed cutlery, so while we have video showing what you are doing, that doesn't tell me much about how much you know or what you could achieve. Again, not a slight, just an observation. You haven't been here very long. (Not saying that being here is the fount of all knife knowledge, but simply that being here longer tends to allow us more interaction to get to know someone.) I think that if someone were interested in showing the pros and cons of the knife to it's fullest, put it in the hands of one of the guys that have been here for forever and very much know a great, great deal about using a knife in the woods. If it were up to me, I would put one in the hands of DOC-CANADA (yes I saw that you have read this thread) because he is a huge proponent of the BK4 and might be favorably biased to a knife with such a cant in it.

Anyways, those are my thoughts. Not trying to insult or anything like that, I have a tendency to look favorably upon that which the Beckerheads do, and despite the knife in question not being one I would consider great, I most definitely appreciate the way in which you put rubber to road and got out and did it. I look forward to seeing the rest of the series, and hope people can maintain some civility even if they do dislike the knife in question.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2006
Messages
7,017
I think that if someone were interested in showing the pros and cons of the knife to it's fullest, put it in the hands of one of the guys that have been here for forever and very much know a great, great deal about using a knife in the woods. If it were up to me, I would put one in the hands of DOC-CANADA (yes I saw that you have read this thread) because he is a huge proponent of the BK4 and might be favorably biased to a knife with such a cant in it.

Geez, Derek, can't a guy sit quietly on the side, to listen and learn? And as far as your 2 cents worth, it was more like a buck fifty. :D

As far as the Schrade Schf43 goes, first of all, I couldn't get past the handle. I like to hold the handle, I don't like it holding me. Get rid of that hook. I could see walking through the woods and tripping over something and not being able to throw it aside before you hit the deck. I'm not even a big fan of the horn(?) at the end of the handle of Kukhuris, although I realize why they're there.

Secondly, although I like a handle that fits my hand (tweeners and BK-14 don't), that handle is way too large for the length of the blade.

Third, I think Schrades are made in China? Aside from region-specific knives, such as Moras and other scandis, Kukhuris, and Swiss Army knives, I want to purchase North American made knives, not that there's anything necessarily wrong with the others. It's just that overseas has enough of our manufacturing jobs.

Fourth, from the pictures that I've seen, the Schrade isn't even canted that much. I could be wrong though.

And finally, I consider who's behind the design. That's why I love my Beckers.

Doc
 
Last edited:

Moosez45

Custom Antlers, Factory Knives...
Moderator
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
15,409
Sorry about the pics in that thread. Musta let my Photobusket account fall off.

Moose
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
498
Here's my limited two cents, whatever that may be worth:

I have long been a believer in the user adapting to the tool. Knowledge on how to use a tool, regardless of shape, size, etc... is what drives a tool from being useful into excelling at whatever particular task(s) it is applied. That being said, I think too many people try to adapt the tool to the user and in the process overspecialize in one area or another and as a result end up losing performance in other areas. I have used a lot of knives. Anyone that has been to Ethan's has as he lays out a metric butt-ton of knives for people to play with when they visit, and play with them they do. I have seen others more knowledgeable and experienced use many knives, and I see several issues with the JX over the other knives shown.

1. While I firmly believe that one must adapt to the tool, the overall design of the tool is going to limit how easily someone can do that. The JX has an awful lot of handle to move around, especially when you get into some unorthodox holds and doing detail work. I don't see it excelling in any detail oriented tasks that would require a person to move their hands around alot to fiddle things into place or angle it just so, etc... Just so much dang handle to get around, and it has a giant hook on the end to catch the sleeve or whatever when you do try to navigate it.

2. Someone earlier mentioned how it would be difficult to carry with so much weight in the handle because it is so big. With kydex and the like, one can compensate for handle length by adding an extension to attach it (the sheath) to the belt, but usually that flows in line with the overall shape of the knife, and that couldn't be done here. I can kydex alot of things, but for me, to make a sheath for the JX, it would be difficult to achieve something that I would want to carry because I honestly can't compensate for that amount of cant AND handle length in a sheath. Not in a way that would work for me. Personal preference mind you, but I am sure that my thoughts are not too far off from what a lot of others would run into.

3. A knife is a knife is a knife. So when you grab a normal knife, someone that has any experience at all in using a knife would already have a basic idea of how to use said knife. Applies to the BK9. Applies slightly less to the BK21. Less so with the BK4 as that one does require some very specific technique to really use effectively, but the JX looks like it would have a vastly different learning curve than any of the others shown. And let me throw out this example from about 3 gatherings back: We had a chopping competition, and it was the most participated one we have had there. Something like almost 20 people, which is a goodly number. I took my kid and suckered him into competing. He didn't have alot of experience, yet even so was able to use a BK21 fairly simply and cut through the log in a respectable time. He didn't come in last. He got tired, sure, but he still managed to use it and use it well. I don't think he would have the same luck with the JX because of all of it's differences. The kid that did win used the BK21 and it was his first time. It was intuitive to use. Again, I don't think he would have done as well using the JX.

4. Versatility. Let's look beyond the typical tasks, and look at the outlandish and unusual. A knife, as a tool, is going to be used to cut. Sometimes it will fall into a cutting action that fits a very definitive task, like chopping, but how often do you use a knife in a manner that isn't as cut and dry as that? We have all used our knives in ways that they were probably not intended, or ways that are not very clearly a simple cutting action, and overall design is going to play into how well the knife does with those tasks. As I said above, I have seen a lot of people better than me with a knife do some incredible things with a knife, and I cannot see them achieving the same level of results with the JX that they could any of the others, and for a multitude of reasons.

Moose is hands down one of the most knowledgeable people I have ever had the pleasure to watch use a blade for a variety of tasks, some fairly standard, but many not. He has a bajillion threads on using knives for so many things, and I have several of them permanently bookmarked because one can learn such a great deal from them. This one in particular stands out to me though, and has long been my reference on a great many tasks and uses:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/820695-BK2-and-Some-Dirt-Time-((PIC-HEAVY))

Now imagine trying to use the JX for those tasks. It just doesn't seem like it would work as well, and it would definitely wear a guy out quicker. BK9 would swap right out with the BK2 he uses. So would a lot of other knives not made by Becker.

Guyon, reigning chopping champion at Half Moon Ridge, I have seen decimate every type of wood that has been thrown down on that mountain with ease, skill, and fantastic technique. I don't see him achieving the same thing with a JX. And that is at chopping. But hand him a BK9, and he will outperform darn near every other tool available.

We have had a lot of comparison threads over the years. and a lot of other tools that were "better" in one way or another. Ultimately the complete package is what determines how good a knife is. Heck, here is a chopping comparison thread Moose did way back when where the 9 won against the RBK (machete model from ye olden times) because of all of those factors. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/784781-Beckerhead-Chop-Test-at-Half-Moon-Ridge

I hope this doesn't come across as a slight, because it most certainly is not meant that way, but I don't know you. I don't know what your level of experience is, I don't know how much knowledge you have in the realm of outdoor themed cutlery, so while we have video showing what you are doing, that doesn't tell me much about how much you know or what you could achieve. Again, not a slight, just an observation. You haven't been here very long. (Not saying that being here is the fount of all knife knowledge, but simply that being here longer tends to allow us more interaction to get to know someone.) I think that if someone were interested in showing the pros and cons of the knife to it's fullest, put it in the hands of one of the guys that have been here for forever and very much know a great, great deal about using a knife in the woods. If it were up to me, I would put one in the hands of DOC-CANADA (yes I saw that you have read this thread) because he is a huge proponent of the BK4 and might be favorably biased to a knife with such a cant in it.

Anyways, those are my thoughts. Not trying to insult or anything like that, I have a tendency to look favorably upon that which the Beckerheads do, and despite the knife in question not being one I would consider great, I most definitely appreciate the way in which you put rubber to road and got out and did it. I look forward to seeing the rest of the series, and hope people can maintain some civility even if they do dislike the knife in question.


I agree with or understand everything that you said. I am not here to say that the JX is the best at ANYTHING. I am trying to show the knives different strong points without bias.
I don't care if everyone here hates the JX. I am not here to defend it. I am here to compare it.
For the people who think that I wasn't chopping as hard with the bk9 or bk4, I can understand you saying that to a point. And your right, I don't have the foot and body work while using the bk4 and bk9 that I do with the RBK.
If you don't understand why, go take your bk14, try to chop with it, and use full body work. Move your legs, shoulders, hips, the whole shebang.
And get it on video so that we can laugh at you.

The bk4 and bk9 are such excellent bush tools for their size. And that is what this comes down to. Anyone who thinks that either would chop better than, or as well as the JX is delusional. That is foolishness.
Does that mean that they are less capable? NO!!!
That is, again, like comparing a bk9 to a bk14 and saying that the 9 is "better" because it chops better.
It doesn't make sense.
The Bk21 is so far, imho, in EVERY way the better chopper. It ended up having a score that tied the JX once I got rid of the highest and lowest numbers (again, in an attempt to be fare), but before I did that, it beat the JX pretty well. And it is lighter. And the grind makes it more capable in a larger range of wood.
But that isn't all that I am here to show.
Chopping isn't the end of this series. It is a small part of it.
This test was as unbias a test as your going to get.

Its a knife comparison, not me coming here saying which is better than the other.

I go to the field with a Nepalese Khukuri most often. That will change soon.

But if I didn't, I would bring the Bk4.

Again, for anyone that missed it, I am a Beckerhead. I own 4 Beckers because I love them.

I own one Schf43 because I saw an opportunity for my YouTube channel.

It has grown on me, but I wouldn't buy it for any other reason than why I did.
I hate Chinese crap.
I can't stand Schrade, although I like them a whole lot better than Cold Steel.

But I will be fairly comparing the knives.
If your feelings get hurt, then I guess your feelings get hurt.
Most of the Beckerheads here are people who spend a lot of time outdoors, and I think that they can probably handle it.
 

Creaky Bones

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
632
I own one Schf43 because I saw an opportunity for my YouTube channel.


Exactly. You picked 3 Beckers and compared them on the Becker forum to PMS101's personal Beckerlike creation, and you act surprised that the response hasn't been all sunshine and lollypops. You knew exactly what you were doing. There are plenty of knives I for one would have been interested in seeing in your "comparison", however biased and meaningless it is, but you chose what you chose. I'm actually impressed, although having been around here for a couple of years not surprised, that the response has been as non-flammable as it has.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
498
Exactly. You picked 3 Beckers and compared them on the Becker forum to PMS101's personal Beckerlike creation, and you act surprised that the response hasn't been all sunshine and lollypops. You knew exactly what you were doing. There are plenty of knives I for one would have been interested in seeing in your "comparison", however biased and meaningless it is, but you chose what you chose. I'm actually impressed, although having been around here for a couple of years not surprised, that the response has been as non-flammable as it has.

Don't assume that I expected Sunshine and lollypops. It's fine for everyone to hate the knife. I don't don't know why I would say it so many times, but I don't care. The only irritation is that people would act like I am cheating the results, or trying to make one knife or another look good.
Hate the knives, hate my channel, hate me, but I was as fair as I could be with what I had.
I don't get paid to do YouTube, so everything that I do is out of pocket.
I don't have a lot of money, as I am self employed, so money is not only short, but so it time.
But I like talking about knives, and comparing things.
Comparing knives gets peoples butts hurt because they attach sentiment to their favorite knives.
I am ok with that.
I get irritated when the Busse zombies talk about how crappy Beckers are. And I get into lengthy discussions with them that get nowhere...
But they don't, and wont do what I am trying to do here.
They wont do an exhaustive number of YouTube videos in a series comparing actual performance of the knives.
Because most of them don't use their knives, and don't care to go through the time an effort.
If YT starts paying me, I will be doing exactly that. Right now it isn't an option.

But their are a lot of people assuming that my goal is one thing or another, so I guess I should have stated my goal even more clearly than I did in my first post.

To fairly show the knives without bias. To put the knives through an entire series of 5 or more videos, and comparing each one by price, performance, and weight, in each category, so that people who are looking for these knives, and are looking for how they stack up for those specific reason, can find what THEY are looking for.

Even at the end of my review, when the points are in and the winner is announced, I want to leave the information clear enough so that ANYONE watching, who is looking for a knife for their specific task and performance range, can come to a somewhat educated conclusion on their own, separate from the numbers and opinions that I present.

Want to know who I THINK will come out on top at the end of the review? The Bk4. Because I love it. But if it doesn't come out on top, I DON'T CARE.

When I did my battle of the budget choppers series, which was my first real work on YouTube, I thought that the Bk9 would win. To my surprise, it didn't. I would still choose it over most of the knives that I used there.

It was mentioned earlier that no one gets butt hurt when a Becker is compared to an Esee. Yeah, because most of us like Esee. And most of us hate Schrade. But why would you go after the presenter of information differently based on this bias? Go after the knife, go after the designer, whatever.

I just expected things to be taken by men, like men. I have gotten a lot of that, and a little that falls a bit short of that.

Nobody here is probably on MOTPM on facebook, but I am, and I have a history of hating Schrade. I don't HATE them anymore. But I won't ever buy one for me. Unless they brought production to the US, or to another respectable nation. (I really only like the USA, Sweden, and Nepal, although Japan , England, and Germany make some good stuff, I just feel that it is overpriced)

Anyways, regardless of all that, I hope that some people will be able to enjoy the rest of the review. The next video wont be up till next week. And it will be much more Becker +.
(I know that because a lot of the work is already done, not because I will make it that way)
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
3,816
Even if the Jessica X could outchop the BK9 two to one I wouldn't buy it: nasty looking think
Plus the handle is so large it will get caught in branches... not that many people will actually bring it in the woods
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
Messages
3,580
Gah, just when this thread was getting good, y'all had to bring it back to the original post...
 

Creaky Bones

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
632
Gah, just when this thread was getting good, y'all had to bring it back to the original post...

That is what I was just thinking as I read.

Sorry fellas. Monday. I really do enjoy comparison videos. I just don't like it when someone feels that their testing is definitive enough to declare a "winner". Winner for who? What if I'm taller than you? Would my longer arms make the results different? What if my hands are bigger? Some of the folks here love the tweeners. Some think the handles are too small for their freakishly ginormous hands. Wouldn't the results be different for them? What if I was a girl?....ok, skip that one. I'd be a hideous girl.

I spent a few hours sunday splitting some red oak with a fiskars x27 super splitter. I love my restored vintage axes, but I have to say that fiskars will blow some wood apart in a hurry and it's a lot lighter than a splitting maul. Especially for old guys with arthritis.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top