Scout Knife Help

N

NativeBlade

Joined
Dec 24, 2010
Messages
4
Im new here and kinda need a little bit of help finding a good Scout Style knife. I like the looks of a knife with either dark delrin or darker colored scales. It needs a bail:D. And I like the awls like on a Victorinox Farmer. Basically something like a Case Scout without the huge ridiculous bottle opener a bottle opener is needed but not that big lol Thanks In Advance Guys
 
I'd bet you'd see lots of possibilities on the 'auction site'. Search 'scout knife' or 'camp knife'. Older Case models, in particular, are very popular. Case currently offers a 'Junior Scout' knife, somewhat downsized from earlier versions, but the quality should be good. Boker has also produced a 'camp knife' of a similar style, also pretty good quality, in a variety of handle materials. Many models are discontinued, but can still be found on the secondary market (the 'auction site'). A.G. Russell also had a good one, the 'Premium Scout Knife' (no longer available from him), with a 154CM main spear blade and various handle materials (jigged bone, stag and micarta).
 
I was going to suggest a Case Junior Scout also. It has the bail, awl, and the bottle opener is smaller.
 
As suggested, +1 on Case Jr Scout. My favorite pattern (at least today :p). The awl on the Vic Farmer/Solidier might be the best, but this one works well also. For overall function vs pocketability and tradional look, I like this a lot. The Boker 182 is really cool, but more expensive and bigger. Lots of cool chioces on the usual venues. Make sure the one you are looking at has bail intact, a lot of specimens have missing/removed bails. Rough Rider and perhaps Remington(Bear made??) may have current offerings, no experience with these. Let us know what you end up with.
 
There is a nice collectors web site dedicated to scout knives. I imagine that if you enter "official boy scout knives" into your search engine of choice, you will find it on the first page of results. They have a list of all of the past makers of official scout knives.

As I understand it, the classic boy scout knife was often sold without any BSA labels on it and was often called a "camper's knife" or "utility knife". Common makers in the 60s and 70s include: Ulster, Camillus, Imperial, Providence Cut Co among others. Most of them of them have carbon blades that sharpen up like scalpels. Some have stainless blades. Most of them have blue jigged celluloid handles. Very old ones might have bone. $$$$ Many older ones have an old style can opener. $$$ I paid around $15 for a non-BSA Ulster from an auction site a few months ago. It's in my EDC rotation and it's a wonderful pocket knife. Personally, I would avoid the really collectible older ones as I can't tell fakes from real ones and the costs get stupid high. Mine looks just like this one, only without the BSA logo on it:
ULSC4G.jpg


And here is a picture (not mine) of an older one with the old $tyle can opener and bone handle$:
ULSC4Eopen.jpg


Lastly, there is another US type knife closely related to the 4 blade camper/BSA knife called the "demo knife". If you google for "demo knife history" you'll probably find a really nice write up on them. They were entirely stainless, including the handles and back springs (prone to breaking) and were standard issue in the US military for a long time. Here's a link to a picture of one:
democookusmc1.jpg


EDITED TO ADD: If you want this style of knife without the awls, screw drivers and can openers, you might search the auction sites and google for 2 more similar patterns. One is called the "equal end jack knife" (blades on the same end, I think) and the other is called the "equal end cattle knife" (blade on each end). Here is a picture of the former:
622013B.jpg


Hope this helps
 
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Thanks guys I appreciate all the help i like the Ulsters you guys are suggesting especially yours pinnah that first knife looks to be fantastic and the exact knife I am Looking for thank you again Ill definantly post pics when I buy a knife
 
Pinnah- that first knife is the exact one that I carried from the moment I became a Boy Scout til I made Eagle, mine had the BSA badge too.
 
NativeBlade said:
Im new here and kinda need a little bit of help finding a good Scout Style knife. I like the looks of a knife with either dark delrin or darker colored scales. It needs a bail:D. And I like the awls like on a Victorinox Farmer. Basically something like a Case Scout without the huge ridiculous bottle opener a bottle opener is needed but not that big lol Thanks In Advance Guys
Click to expand...

The Rough Rider Amber Bone or Red Bone Camp knife looks good if you want to save a few $$$.
 
Unless you want a "gentleman's" scout knife I would look to the older models and not the Case Scout Jr. But beware of buying them off your popular auction sites too. I've got two and both Case specimens have a flaw or two. Still usable knives and probably my fault for not knowing what to look for that may have indicated a factory second. I did get a nice KaBar model though. Take your time and look around and really check out the photos if there are any. You'll find something to delight yourself with.
 
pinnah said:
... Lastly, there is another US type knife closely related to the 4 blade camper/BSA knife called the "demo knife". If you google for "demo knife history" you'll probably find a really nice write up on them. They were entirely stainless, including the handles and back springs (prone to breaking) and were standard issue in the US military for a long time. Here's a link to a picture of one:
democookusmc1.jpg
Click to expand...

This.
I thought the breaking spring was a thing of the past, a design flaw that was taken care of. About two years ago I bought a 2006 Camillus Demo knife. I'd always wanted one, and was excited. Not as refined as the Vic Soldier, but still a knife with a lot of history. Some on here always said the soldiers who got these would toss them and use the TL-29, which were much better, because they had springs that stood the test of time. Like I said, I thought a newer version of this knife wouldn't have that spring breakage problem.
They do.
My lightly used Demo knife now sits in my knife bag with a broken back spring.
Bummer.... but lesson learned.
 
Voltron said:
My lightly used Demo knife now sits in my knife bag with a broken back spring.
Bummer.... but lesson learned.
Click to expand...

My understanding (from that collector's site the photo is taken from) is the culprit is/was the use of stainless for the springs. Stainless is a lot of things more than other steels and more brittle is generally one of them.

My sense is that Camillus was in a tough spot with a knife like that. Do you continue to produce it according to the original military specs to maintain a certain form of authenticity? Or do you step out-side of the military spec to address a functional issue? This is entirely speculation on my part but given that a) camper style knives are still available (Case, Rough Rider, etc) and b) that SAK knives are based on the same basic template it would make sense to me that Camillus might have concluded that the primary buyer of a newly made Demo knife would be looking to buy something as close to the military spec as possible, flaws and all. If the buying criteria was usability, there were other options. Again. I'm just speculating.


Regarding the Case versions, this thread suggests that the Case Campers were actually made by.... (drum roll please)....

Camillus

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/698090-Wondering-about-Case-Camper-stainless-or-CV
 
Voltron said:
This.
I thought the breaking spring was a thing of the past, a design flaw that was taken care of. About two years ago I bought a 2006 Camillus Demo knife. I'd always wanted one, and was excited. Not as refined as the Vic Soldier, but still a knife with a lot of history. Some on here always said the soldiers who got these would toss them and use the TL-29, which were much better, because they had springs that stood the test of time. Like I said, I thought a newer version of this knife wouldn't have that spring breakage problem.
They do.
My lightly used Demo knife now sits in my knife bag with a broken back spring.
Bummer.... but lesson learned.
Click to expand...

I do not know if your knife is worth repairing, if so get in touch with Henry Okleshen Box 296 Elvsian MN
 
I think the spring breakage issue on the 'demo' knives is just an issue of quality of the heat treat, and perhaps a poor grade of stainless steel. I don't believe it's just a generic stainless vs. carbon steel thing. The overwhelming majority of current production knives are made with stainless springs these days (all Case Tru-Sharp knives, and Buck's entire line, among many others). Rarely do they break. Most of the production folders I've seen with broken springs are older ones with carbon springs anyway.

I think the whole notion of the 'demo knives' being built to 'Mil-Spec' is somewhat overblown, or perceived as meaning more than it really does, in terms of quality. Sometimes, 'Mil-Spec' is just a basic list of desired features on a tool, as opposed to a stringent checklist of QC requirements. I'd bet the overriding concern with the Demo Knife was a requirement that it won't rust, hence the all-stainless construction. These knives have always been produced at minimal cost, to do a relatively simple job. Same applies to at least a few versions of the TL-29 knife. A friend of mine, years ago, spent 10 years in the Navy during the Vietnam-war era. He spent most of that time on aircraft carriers. He had told me, in somewhat 'embellished' fashion (;)), that his TL-29 would sharpen up quickly, and lose that edge by the time he'd walked across the flight deck. I'm sure it wasn't quite that bad, but I understood what he meant. It's an inexpensive, basic tool. Not too much is expected of it.

A lot of older knives show signs of stress near the anchor pin for the backspring. Most of the time, it shows up as cracked scales near the pin. Sometimes, when watching closely as the knife is opened & closed, you can see the brass-lined frame flex and/or twist. Lots of movement around that pin, which is usually why the scales crack, especially with very brittle bone. Take a similarly constructed, cheaply-made knife made with steel liners/scales & pins, which presumably wouldn't flex as much as thin brass, and a lot of the stress at that joint will be focused back on the anchor pin or the backspring itself. A cheaply-made spring, of any steel type, might not take the load too well. The stress is compounded on a spring that gets flexed from both ends, such as found on the 4-bladed demo knife (vs. the 'TL-29' style, which is only getting flexed from one end).
 
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You raise an excellent point about the steel frame OWE. Interestingly my first scout was an Ulster BSA in SS with saw cut Delrin. Spring broke and it was replaced with the five blade deluxe. I think I aided the spring breakage by opening all blades at once and some partially.

One thing to look out for is blade play. The Ulsters that predominate over the last 30 years or so were made with the Schrade Tilden? Key, the funky bolster with no pin through. If there is play it can't be fixed or fixed easily.
 
I heard it called a "Swinden" key bolster. For those who have no idea what we are talking about, its a bolster pin that does not show on the outside of the knife.

301end.jpg


DSCF11222.jpg


Used by Schrade in their knives and the first slipjoint Buck knives that Schrade contracted. With heavy use they could deform and become loose. Knife would have to be completely taken apart to repair.

FYI 300Bucks
 
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Thanks for that great photo 300Bucks! never noticed that before. Don't think I have any Scouts (or other) with that construction method, but will have to look.
Fred
 
Question for the knowledgeable: did Camillus ever use the Swinden keys? My five blade from say 1976 has developed side to side play that bugs me a bit. It is an Ulster. I don't recall abusing it, but it got most of it's use when i was 10 to 14 and got lent to other young idiots.

For some reason I always liked the form factor of the cub scout knife, but got a full size scout because it was big. Kinda like the autoloading .22 I got instead of a bolt action.:confused:
 
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