sebenza 21 vs umnumzaan ?

[ribeyemediumrare]

I'm thinking about getting a chris reeve knife and I would appreciate if any of you guys with experience with both of these models could provide some input for aspects I haven't seen discussed. Which one has a smoother better quality feel when opening and closing, does one have a more solid lock "snap"? Does the ceramic ball lock face and rubber o-ring of the umnum or the pivot bushing of the sebenza provide a better feel? Comparing the drop point versions, is the sebenza a much better slicer? Also while I have found I prefer larger knives because they fit my hand better, I think it would be good to have a quality 3 inch blade for light clothes, office environments, and travel to places with stricter knife laws. Aside from the different dimensions, does the small sebenza 21 feel like less of a knife and is using it comfortable? I know this is a lot of questions but answers to any of them would be helpful.
Sebenza 21 pros:
-pivot bushing (I like being able to just tighten it down and not worry about getting it just right to balance smoothness and blade play)
-classic design, more people friendly, I like the rounded spine
-the lock bar cutout possibly makes closing it easier
cons: the sterile look might get boring

Umnumzaan pros:
-more visually interesting
-I like the blade swedge and unique look of the blade
-Can be flicked open fast, combined with the orings possibly makes for better fidget factor while being less annoying to people around
-The thumb studs are less in the way for things like sharpening and not interfering during use
cons: The lock bar look very uncomfortable to disengage, regular washer and pivot mechanism that is on a bunch of other knives

 

[JJ_Colt45]

Out of the box the 21 is the smoother of the two ... the Umnumzaan requires a break in period and it is a slightly different motion to open smoothly ...

most say the Umnumzaan is hard on their thumb for awhile ... and the rubber o-rings on the Umnumzaan make it nearly silent opening ... so the 21 has that audible lock up that you asked about ... and neither are made to be flicked open ... yes they can be but if you want a good flicking or fidget knife you may not like either ...

as far as size they feel nearly indentical in hand ... specs are too close to notice ...

I can't say one is better than the other I like both ... but they are very different knives ...

 

[Tseg]

They both are very different. I have the Tanto Umnumzaan which makes this knife even more unique. For me the action on the Umnumzaan feels more crisp and polished. It really begs to be flipped open... in fact the placement of the thumb studs forces me to open the knife in two steps with a slight quick hand reposition if I want to open slowly, which I rarely do. The super quiet action of the Umnumzaan is in sharp contrast to the loud clink-clank of the large Sebenza. In fairness I only have a Damascus Sebenza so maybe that somehow contributes to the clanky feel of the Sebenza deployment? I ended up removing my Umnumzaan clip that sits right on the edge vs. off a few mm in the Sebenza. The Umnumzaan without the clip has made a lot of difference in comfort for me. I suppose if only 1 it is the Sebenza with historical significance. The are both quite large.

 

[Rhah]

I have yet to handle an Umnumzaan so I can't speak on that, but I do own both a small and large Sebenza 21 so perhaps my input on those can be of some help to you.

I personally think that the Large 21 feels better in hand than the Small (and I have relatively small hands) and is better suited to be a real work knife. But, I must admit, the Small 21 is also an incredible knife that can hardly disappoint.

So much so, in fact, that when I bought it I was genuinely convinced that I wouldn't need anything else and could just edc the Small 21 for the rest of my days. I carried it every day for 8-9 months straight without feeling the need to buy anything new. I was content with the Small Sebby.
Only after about 9 months of straight carry (I'm not a collector so the Small 21 really was my only knife) I started to feel the itch to maybe try out a Large Sebenza and see what that was like. I tracked one down and it has since become my new edc.

Both are genuinely terrific knives that won't ever let you down and won't disappoint, so I'd say just think about what's important to you.

-If flickability is important, then either Sebenza will be just as good an option as (I imagine) the Umnumzaan will be. Yes, the Sebenzas feel very solid and hydraulic when slowly opening them, but once they have been properly worn in it is absolutely no issue to quickly thumb flick them open. Which is exactly why I fell in love with the Sebenzas; both ways of opening is just an absolute joy and they make wonderful fidget toys when on the couch watching a movie.
- If hard use is important, then I'd definitely go with the Large over the Small in case of the Sebenzas. It just feels a little more solid, provides better grip in hand, and the longer blade will be more useful.
- If discrete carriability in the office and travel convenience are important factors, then definitely go with the Small 21. It's still an amazingly solid knife that'll be able to perform pretty much every daily task you can think of, but whereas the Large is fairly big and heavy (making it a less comfortable edc for around the house), the Small quite literally disappears in your pocket.

Again, I can't speak for the Umnumzaan, but if you decide to go with a Sebenza I am convinced that you will not be dissapointed. And whether you should go with either the Large or the Small really depends on what factors are important to you and what you'll be using it for. They are both stellar, just different in characteristics and therefore in usage.

 

[Ajack60]

I just replied to this in GKD

 

[Murphjd25]

The answer is obviously get both. I prefer the Large 21 though.

 

[ribeyemediumrare]

They both are very different. I have the Tanto Umnumzaan which makes this knife even more unique. For me the action on the Umnumzaan feels more crisp and polished. It really begs to be flipped open... in fact the placement of the thumb studs forces me to open the knife in two steps with a slight quick hand reposition if I want to open slowly, which I rarely do. The super quiet action of the Umnumzaan is in sharp contrast to the loud clink-clank of the large Sebenza. In fairness I only have a Damascus Sebenza so maybe that somehow contributes to the clanky feel of the Sebenza deployment? I ended up removing my Umnumzaan clip that sits right on the edge vs. off a few mm in the Sebenza. The Umnumzaan without the clip has made a lot of difference in comfort for me. I suppose if only 1 it is the Sebenza with historical significance. The are both quite large.

What do you use to sharpen the tanto blade, do you just use the same bevel angle on the tanto portion as the primary edge or is there some kind of convexing needed?

 

[ribeyemediumrare]

I have yet to handle an Umnumzaan so I can't speak on that, but I do own both a small and large Sebenza 21 so perhaps my input on those can be of some help to you.

I personally think that the Large 21 feels better in hand than the Small (and I have relatively small hands) and is better suited to be a real work knife. But, I must admit, the Small 21 is also an incredible knife that can hardly disappoint.

So much so, in fact, that when I bought it I was genuinely convinced that I wouldn't need anything else and could just edc the Small 21 for the rest of my days. I carried it every day for 8-9 months straight without feeling the need to buy anything new. I was content with the Small Sebby.
Only after about 9 months of straight carry (I'm not a collector so the Small 21 really was my only knife) I started to feel the itch to maybe try out a Large Sebenza and see what that was like. I tracked one down and it has since become my new edc.

Both are genuinely terrific knives that won't ever let you down and won't disappoint, so I'd say just think about what's important to you.

-If flickability is important, then either Sebenza will be just as good an option as (I imagine) the Umnumzaan will be. Yes, the Sebenzas feel very solid and hydraulic when slowly opening them, but once they have been properly worn in it is absolutely no issue to quickly thumb flick them open. Which is exactly why I fell in love with the Sebenzas; both ways of opening is just an absolute joy and they make wonderful fidget toys when on the couch watching a movie.
- If hard use is important, then I'd definitely go with the Large over the Small in case of the Sebenzas. It just feels a little more solid, provides better grip in hand, and the longer blade will be more useful.
- If discrete carriability in the office and travel convenience are important factors, then definitely go with the Small 21. It's still an amazingly solid knife that'll be able to perform pretty much every daily task you can think of, but whereas the Large is fairly big and heavy (making it a less comfortable edc for around the house), the Small quite literally disappears in your pocket.

Again, I can't speak for the Umnumzaan, but if you decide to go with a Sebenza I am convinced that you will not be dissapointed. And whether you should go with either the Large or the Small really depends on what factors are important to you and what you'll be using it for. They are both stellar, just different in characteristics and therefore in usage.

thats good to know you enjoy both sizes, do you find there is any difference between the small and large in regards to flicking them open and rolling them open, my concern with a small would be feeling cramped on the handle as im opening and putting too much tension on the lockbar or not having enough material in my hand anchored against my palm to feel secure when opening it

 

[Tseg]

What do you use to sharpen the tanto blade, do you just use the same bevel angle on the tanto portion as the primary edge or is there some kind of convexing needed?

I use a 2K/6K grit stone by hand and then stropping to .5 microns. I haven't tried to change the factory bevel. The tanto end is a much shallower bevel and I sharpen that side much less as I use it less often. The slicing slide slices as good if not better than my large Sebenza.

 

[Rhah]

thats good to know you enjoy both sizes, do you find there is any difference between the small and large in regards to flicking them open and rolling them open, my concern with a small would be feeling cramped on the handle as im opening and putting too much tension on the lockbar or not having enough material in my hand anchored against my palm to feel secure when opening it

No I can honestly say that there's no difference in that regard, and that's because of the way that I hold both knives when opening. Which is by placing my last 3 fingers (pinky, ring and middle) on the pocket clip, my index finger around the pivot area and the thumb on the stud.
Both sizes have the same size pocket clip so the way that I hold and open them actually is and feels pretty much identical.

Sure, there is less real estate to hold onto with the small sebby of course, but this has never been an issue for me.

Though, like I said, I do have relatively small hands so you might want to handle one first if you generally wear large size gloves, for instance.

Though I must also say that the person who I bought my large sebenza from - who had larger hands than I and who also owned a large inkosi and had previously owned an umnumzaan - handled my small sebenza for short while and was surprised by how well he was able to get a good hold and grip on the knife. He had initially always assumed that it would be too small for him, but it turned out that it wasn't.

 

[rexromic]

Get 21 first and then Umnumzaan .

 

[Lapedog]

Any thoughts about splitting the difference and getting an Inkosi?

 

[tchapman414]

Both, eventually, is the perfect solution. My current setup is a right hand large 21 basketweave Damascus and a left hand umnumzaan. The latter is new, but I'm finally getting the dexterity down for off hand use. Since they make dedicated handed models, may be worth considering something similar.

 

[ZT0620OWNER]

In my case I got the 25 first then a Zaan second and then a 21. The 25 and the Zaan feel much more substantial then the 21 that I felt a little disappointed in the 21 purchase. My advice is to get the 21 first.