Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

Dogdrawz said:
I finally got one! Yay?! K, so it's a user & I hoping it had these issues. Why? Cuz I'm a curious one. So, it deployed really good. Too good. Oh look, blade play. Ok. Washers aren't pinch. Screws are tight. Disassembly & measure time! Yep. Some things aren't right. Time to fix. Since the machined stop pin is something I can't fix w/o a milling machine, let's dial everything else in. Pivot collar, washers & backspacer need some material shaved off. Done. Sebenza...assemble! Ah, just like a Sebbie from spa & now needs a proper break-in. Hello again Sebie thumb. Also, it does have lock flex & as much as my Inkosi did. Since the tang is forcing the lock bar up, I'm not concerned...yet. I find it weird that I know it's a Sebenza, but it sure sounds like an Inkosi. ;)
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I think this is the real issue, not so much the lockbar flex pivoting off the ball.

Why are Sebenzas getting through QC where there is a significant mismatch in parts? Most users aren't in position to sort out their own mechanical problems as easily. I'm very excited about the design of the 31 (just waiting on S45vn before committing), but I would like them to get their assembly and QC process dialed in more. The whole point of the Sebenza is the pivot bushing giving the user consistent action without the need for thread locker. If people want tunable pivots, there are far more affordable options as well as the Inkosi/Umnuumzaan.
 
Dogdrawz said:
More cost effective to not spend so much time getting the locking interface just right verses drill hole, insert ball.
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My understanding is the blade tang ramp still needs to be tuned (finish ground), as it is on the Umnumzaan and the Inkosi, so that step is likely still there. They skip the carburization of the Ti lock face, but add the step of crimping the lock ball into its socket, which I understand is done by hand. There is the cost of the large ceramic ball, and the production time for the careful CNC machining to create its socket on the corner of the lock bar, so I’m guessing the cost difference and production time is minimal and not really anyone’s goal.

I think CRK was genuinely trying to push forward with this design. Whether or not it reaches a receptive audience is open to debate. Certainly not having a problem selling them despite the indignation junkies.
 
I watched the video (#1015) about the differences between 21, 25 and 31. An important cosmetic difference for me was not mentioned. The short slot on the inside of the lock side near the pivot has now disappeared. Like the locater hole, it too was production-related. I suspect the saw blade that sawed the lockarm plunged a little into the pivot area. It still is present on a new Mnandi. Never liked the slot and regard it as a technical flaw. Again 31: One of the so called production holes is still there as a finish of the lock arm. Why haven´t they got rid of this hole too?
in my eyes the 31 is more complicated and it can not be fine tuned by the owner. I want to have and sometimes used the pssibility to e.g. slightly sand down the pivot bushing, stand off and collar of the stop pin to tweak centering, play or travel of the lockbar.
 
I've never tried to flex any of my CRK's while I've owned them. I ended up picking this Inkosi up and it does have some slight flex if you push down on the blade with the knife on the table. In hand there is no flex just as their is none on the 31. This really wasn't a problem before we knew it was a problem? I don't know...


Brothers.jpg
 
Dogdrawz said:
It was my understanding Mr. Chris' thinking was there was no need for carburization if your geometry is correct.
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The 21s had a heat-treated, carburized face on the end of the Ti lockbar. The ball interface knives don’t, but I believe the ramp on the blade tang the ball rides on is still “tuned” to achieve the desired lockup depth.
 
kidcongo said:
The 21s had a heat-treated, carburized face on the end of the Ti lockbar. The ball interface knives don’t, but I believe the ramp on the blade tang the ball rides on is still “tuned” to achieve the desired lockup depth.
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I might have been thinking of carbidizing. Whoops.
 
V-1 said:
He has stated that he called CRK and they blew him off. CRK told him it was normal. Where do you go from there?
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That is not the way I read it. It sounded like he called CRK about the "lock flex" issue. If he called CRK with a serious inquiry that included "side to side play and very late lock up" I do not think they are going to dismiss that call. If they did, it would be first I have ever heard of it. I know first hand that they have corrected issues like this & paid shipping etc....especially for our international friends.

All I am saying is that no company is 100% perfect and you have to give them a fair chance to fix it. And it you are unwilling to give them a fair chance to fix it, then that is on you, not them. Take a fourth of the time spent typing messages on Bladeforums and just place a phone call to CRK and I guarantee the results will be much more productive.
 
Wow what a thread! I just wanted to thank everyone who participated in this discussion with earnest feedback. I have been on the fence about getting a Sebenza 21 for a very long time now. In fact, I remember reading about them many years ago, when I was a poor college student, and thinking that I'd never be able to own one and experience first-hand their quality. Fast forward to now, Having more discretionary income for luxuries, I definitely got over my mental block on spending money on knives! I feel like I've "been there, done that" with custom knives that were far more expensive than a Sebenza 21 ever was, but, oddly, I never purchased the knife that "opened my eyes" so-to-speak to high-end possibilities. In a way, I guess I always figured I'd have time to... until I stumbled upon this thread. I just didn't realize the Sebenza 21 was being discontinued and being replaced by the 31... Also, I'm disheartened to learn that many are having issues with their 31, which, new features/ mechanisms aside, may be related to QC issues. Long story short, after a few days of hunting, I was able to pick-up a new "plain" 21 still in the box; with this thread spurring me along, I just couldn't NOT get one at this point. Should be here in a few days :thumbsup:
 
Cold Iron Eyes said:
Wow what a thread! I just wanted to thank everyone who participated in this discussion with earnest feedback. I have been on the fence about getting a Sebenza 21 for a very long time now. In fact, I remember reading about them many years ago, when I was a poor college student, and thinking that I'd never be able to own one and experience first-hand their quality. Fast forward to now, Having more discretionary income for luxuries, I definitely got over my mental block on spending money on knives! I feel like I've "been there, done that" with custom knives that were far more expensive than a Sebenza 21 ever was, but, oddly, I never purchased the knife that "opened my eyes" so-to-speak to high-end possibilities. In a way, I guess I always figured I'd have time to... until I stumbled upon this thread. I just didn't realize the Sebenza 21 was being discontinued and being replaced by the 31... Also, I'm disheartened to learn that many are having issues with their 31, which, new features/ mechanisms aside, may be related to QC issues. Long story short, after a few days of hunting, I was able to pick-up a new "plain" 21 still in the box; with this thread spurring me along, I just couldn't NOT get one at this point. Should be here in a few days :thumbsup:
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Prob gonna have the same movement as the 31. Congrats on ur seb!!
 
Cold Iron Eyes said:
Wow what a thread! I just wanted to thank everyone who participated in this discussion with earnest feedback. I have been on the fence about getting a Sebenza 21 for a very long time now. In fact, I remember reading about them many years ago, when I was a poor college student, and thinking that I'd never be able to own one and experience first-hand their quality. Fast forward to now, Having more discretionary income for luxuries, I definitely got over my mental block on spending money on knives! I feel like I've "been there, done that" with custom knives that were far more expensive than a Sebenza 21 ever was, but, oddly, I never purchased the knife that "opened my eyes" so-to-speak to high-end possibilities. In a way, I guess I always figured I'd have time to... until I stumbled upon this thread. I just didn't realize the Sebenza 21 was being discontinued and being replaced by the 31... Also, I'm disheartened to learn that many are having issues with their 31, which, new features/ mechanisms aside, may be related to QC issues. Long story short, after a few days of hunting, I was able to pick-up a new "plain" 21 still in the box; with this thread spurring me along, I just couldn't NOT get one at this point. Should be here in a few days :thumbsup:
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Congrats! Don't forget the photos. I luv me some photos.
 
NCHunter78 said:
That is not the way I read it. It sounded like he called CRK about the "lock flex" issue. If he called CRK with a serious inquiry that included "side to side play and very late lock up" I do not think they are going to dismiss that call. If they did, it would be first I have ever heard of it. I know first hand that they have corrected issues like this & paid shipping etc....especially for our international friends.

All I am saying is that no company is 100% perfect and you have to give them a fair chance to fix it. And it you are unwilling to give them a fair chance to fix it, then that is on you, not them. Take a fourth of the time spent typing messages on Bladeforums and just place a phone call to CRK and I guarantee the results will be much more productive.
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This was how it was done in the old days. Those days are sadly gone. No one, not even CRK, is immune to the shift away from reason, towards rampant call-out culture. The internet has given ultimate power to doofs with keyboards.
 
Dogdrawz said:
I might have been thinking of carbidizing. Whoops.
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I don’t recall the differing between the two processes, and get them mixed up. The carburizing vs carbidizing debate is for someone with a bigger brain than mine. “heat treated Ti” might be a better descriptor for the lock bar hardening treatment on the 21.
 
Ok guys be careful. i just tested a bunch of sebs and with light thumb down pressure on the blade. One lockup seem to have failed on me and coulda did some damage.
Im not how this movement would be in actual use of the knife since your cutting/using in the opposite direction.
 
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