Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

Clem Fandango said:
OK... so I fiddled some more. Including a more vigorous table test (note: I've now caught up on the many many many pages of this thread and saw your video).

I can now see that it does flex a teeny weeny bit with quite a bit of force leaning on it with two fingers. There was no hint of failure and it flexes straight back - it doesn't jiggle or anything. There is no side to side flex at all.

I was curious and had a Spydiechef to hand and tried that out as well - it turns out it does the same thing (very very tiny movement as well) and I have used that with no issues for ages.

Anyway it doesn't bother me at all - it's hard to describe exactly but there is nothing loose while doing it and it doesn't leave anything wobbling about afterwards. The video in the thread showing the breakdown of various models helped explain why it is likely doing this - and could even be expected with the interplay of the three points of the triangle, their different hardness and shapes. Weirdly it felt kind of reassuring that it gave a tiny bit to avoid "popping" like one of your 21s did! Yikes.

All said and done I can't see this ever being an issue for me using the knife and wouldn't dream of sending it in.

I have been considering getting either an Umnumzaan or Inkosi - reading some of the comments on this thread gave me cause for pause but now I feel confident again. Note: I wouldn't feel great if I had side to side play or could move it with clicks etc just using my fingers - but I saw none of that on mine.

Hope this helps.
:cool:
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Thank you!
 
kidcongo said:
Border shipping times aren’t bad right now. I move a lot of product across for my work and it’s running pretty smoothly right now. I hope CRK gets down to the source of the problem with you knife. Good luck!
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Yup...Business accounts have priority. Since there are fewer employee’s right now.
Residential mail...waaaay slower. Ive mailed two packages to the USA a month ago. They still havent arrived.
Please dont be condescending to me. Maybe get back on the thread topic.

Glad to hear that business mail is doing well tho. And if you were trying to be helpful...thanks.

ETA: Back on topic...I also have my Maccassar 31 with the flex too. Trying to decide if I want to switch to that and see if it is any better or just return it. Zero side/side play on that one, outta the box. But the Micarta also had no side/side play outta the box too. Hmmm...what to do what to do.
 
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I had mentioned the direction of lockbar flex in a previous post. Here's a vid where you can see it.
31 PJ
As you can see in this particular vid, no failure.

Edit:
Guess I could have done my other 21's. Whoops.
21 PJ
21 Micarta
21 CF
As you can see they all flex upwards & no failure. Now, I'll go wipe my brow & check my pants.
 
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Dogdrawz said:
I had mentioned the direction of lockbar flex in a previous post. Here's a vid where you can see it.
31 PJ
As you can see in this particular vid, no failure.

Edit:
Guess I could have done my other 21's. Whoops.
21 PJ
21 Micarta
21 CF
As you can see they all flex upwards & no failure. Now, I'll go wipe my brow & check my pants.
Click to expand...

Very nice shots there buddy. Nice job! :cool::thumbsup:

And you can clearly see that the 31 flexes quite a bit more than the 21 as I expected sporting the ceramic ball lock up interface. I'm not saying it's gonna slip tho.. Probably a safe lock.

Good to get a real world view to all of this debate finally!

Thanx!!

:)
 
Dogdrawz said:
I had mentioned the direction of lockbar flex in a previous post. Here's a vid where you can see it.
31 PJ
As you can see in this particular vid, no failure.

Edit:
Guess I could have done my other 21's. Whoops.
21 PJ
21 Micarta
21 CF
As you can see they all flex upwards & no failure. Now, I'll go wipe my brow & check my pants.
Click to expand...

Now that, right there, is some good video. ;)

It’s pretty plain to see that the lockbar is flexing towards the spine.
Is there any side-to-side flex or motion, either towards or away from deeper lock engagement?
 
BD_01 BD_01 ...no side-to-side flex or motion either towards or away from deeper lock engagement. I did not dare put any more force on the blade so there is no testing beyond what is on the videos. To anyone who asks "what if you put more force on the blade than what the videos show?" obviously this was not tested & no answers are had at the moment. Now I'm off to get more Sebie thumb. :rolleyes:31 is finally breaking in nicely. ;)
 
Dogdrawz said:
BD_01 BD_01 ...no side-to-side flex or motion either towards or away from deeper lock engagement. I did not dare put any more force on the blade so there is no testing beyond what is on the videos. To anyone who asks "what if you put more force on the blade than what the videos show?" obviously this was not tested & no answers are had at the moment. Now I'm off to get more Sebie thumb. :rolleyes:31 is finally breaking in nicely. ;)
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Thanx again for making and posting those vids.

It really clarifies a lot of the debates in this veeeery long thread.

That post maybe even gonna put this whole thread to sleep, once and for all..

:cool::thumbsup:
 
Dogdrawz said:
I had mentioned the direction of lockbar flex in a previous post. Here's a vid where you can see it.
31 PJ
As you can see in this particular vid, no failure.

Edit:
Guess I could have done my other 21's. Whoops.
21 PJ
21 Micarta
21 CF
As you can see they all flex upwards & no failure. Now, I'll go wipe my brow & check my pants.
Click to expand...
Bravo and thanks for this.
 
Dogdrawz said:
I had mentioned the direction of lockbar flex in a previous post. Here's a vid where you can see it.
31 PJ
As you can see in this particular vid, no failure.

Edit:
Guess I could have done my other 21's. Whoops.
21 PJ
21 Micarta
21 CF
As you can see they all flex upwards & no failure. Now, I'll go wipe my brow & check my pants.
Click to expand...

Hi, thanks for posting the videos.

From my observation apart from the 31, the lockbar is moving vertically as if the the lock bar face and blade tang face is not sitting perfectly square. Its like rocking on a pivot point where it meets. As pressure is applied, it pivots and then settles as it sits square on both faces. On 31, the point of contact would be the ball point, thus if it has room to move it will move.

I did try to replicate on my 2014 L21 PJ however instead of pushing on the blade, I used force on the lock bar pushing it vertically. I put some force with my thumb pushing the lockbar with the blade closed and it moved without much effort. I tried with the blade open, it would not budge at all, but I did get some stick when I disengage the lock. I did observe also that the face on the blade tang, the scratch is uniform along the blade tang face.
 
I just checked this on an m.strider sng and it does not flex at all. But that’s because the lbs prevents it from going that way. Maybe that’s the solution, but I doubt they would do that. On the zaan the lbs doesn’t function that way.
 
thegamettt said:
I just checked this on an m.strider sng and it does not flex at all. But that’s because the lbs prevents it from going that way. Maybe that’s the solution, but I doubt they would do that. On the zaan the lbs doesn’t function that way.
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None of my striders have any of this this movement at all. But again, it doesnt bother me that my sebs have it. I dont use my knives in that direction.
 
I just tried this “ scientific 21 lock flex test “ and I have no movement. Am I putting 50lbs of pressure on it...? Hell no. But pushing more than enough and nothing, nada. Guess I am lucky. They are both 2016. So must have been a no lock flex 21 kinda year... lol

Edit: Make that 3, 2016 Sebenzas I have out that have zero flex. All Large 21. 2 are S35VN, 1 is Damascus.
 
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Dogdrawz said:
I had mentioned the direction of lockbar flex in a previous post. Here's a vid where you can see it.
31 PJ
As you can see in this particular vid, no failure.

Edit:
Guess I could have done my other 21's. Whoops.
21 PJ
21 Micarta
21 CF
As you can see they all flex upwards & no failure. Now, I'll go wipe my brow & check my pants.
Click to expand...
It's a fairly basic function of geometry which indicates such a lock bar design will do this. The direction the blade tang pushes on the lock is mostly upwards, not into the lock bar. This isn't a function of the lock interface so much as the overall layout of the lock, and I have had a bunch of knives designed similarly which do the same thing (some Hinderers do this as well to a smaller degree).

Not all lock bars are designed this way, and not all will flex the same, but a shifting lockbar isn't necessarily dangerous.
 
Did this on my 21 with a bit more force and lock failed. Come to think of it, it's a fairly basic function of geometry...
If you design a knife where the end of a lockface doesn't engage perpendicular with the end of your lockbar, its just going to happen.
Do you really think this next picture extreme in my book example is not going to fail?...
01bo033det3.jpg


Just don't think much thought was given in this regard. Not much complaining maybe. It's all good to you good folks so. Its not something my other knives do so it's not okay. Was a sad day for me when this happened.
 
Sergeua said:
Did this on my 21 with a bit more force and lock failed. Its not something my other knives do so it's not okay. Was a sad day for me when this happened.
Click to expand...

It's not the norm, maybe you had some grease on the interface or somthing or have one with a too early lock up? I have done the table test on my 21's with brute force; very tiny movement and certainly no lock slippage.

Also, remember when you hold on to your knife, your hands are somewhat keeping the lockbar in place.
 
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Sergeua said:
Did this on my 21 with a bit more force and lock failed. Come to think of it, it's a fairly basic function of geometry...
If you design a knife where the end of a lockface doesn't engage perpendicular with the end of your lockbar, its just going to happen.
Do you really think this next picture extreme in my book example is not going to fail?...
01bo033det3.jpg


Just don't think much thought was given in this regard. Not much complaining maybe. It's all good to you good folks so. Its not something my other knives do so it's not okay. Was a sad day for me when this happened.
Click to expand...
The most interesting thing to me, as far as this discussion goes at this point, is no longer the reported 31 lock flex, which doesn’t seem like something that would bother me, personally, but ultimate lock strength in terms of the lock failing and allowing the lock to slip, and the blade fold. CRK has stated somewhere (Tim Reeve on Bookface?) that the 31 lock is stronger. I don’t participate in FB so I don’t know. I can imagine how this might be true, if the 31 lock engagement point is allowed to pivot on the fulcrum of the ceramic ball, without being forced outwards by geometry.

Who knows? No one here, yet. I really wish I had the money to buy a bunch of CRKs to do destructive testing on. It would be very interesting if the 31 lock was found to be stronger/safer in terms of ultimate lock failure, despite the complaints that you can flex it with ease. We need Cold Steel to sort this comparison out for us!!
 
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