Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

Robot Mania Fu said:
Absolutely. My 21 feels like a vault. The new 31's should be the same, if not better....PERIOD. This isn't the price range where there should be any variation, especially since this lock face isn't new technology for them.
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I have 21’s that don’t feel like a vault, have uncentered blades, and I just fixed an inlay in my damascus 21 that was lifting up out of its recess (bought brand new 2.5 weeks ago and have been carrying it since).

So, at that price range, shouldn't I have gotten better knives? Especially $750 for the 21 in damascus. Very light side to side wiggle, uncentered blade, and a lifting inlay.

My only 31 is centered, screws don’t back out, no “lock rock/lock bar flex” unless you’re really forcing it, and is just as smooth as the 21’s I own, but with a better feeling detent.

When comparing the two models, seems each generation has just as many “issues” as the other can have due to these being hand fitted, yet still a mass produced item.

Now I’m not bashing the 21 and saying the 31 is better because I don’t believe that, they’re just different is all. I have no issue carrying either gen.
 
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I have been checking in on the 31’s. Looks some are right on the money. Some need some TLC. I will pick up a small 21 while they are still available.
 
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jackghobbies said:
I'm on my second Sebenza 31 that has the issue of the pivot screw backing out. Similar issue to the hardened stop pin issue. I suspect vibrations and screw thread issues as part of the root cause.
It's on the way back to CRK via BladeHQ. Sad to buy a high end knife with these issues.
CRK now includes loctite in the box which didn't solve my issue but also noting here for everyone who gave feedback on not using loctite as the 21/31 was by design not recommended.
Maybe consider designing for intolerance (loctite is a clear indication of an attempt to mitigate) instead of the laser focus on tight tolerances. Just a thought.
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The one I just bought had a loctited stop pin screw and shipped with loctite. Must be a known problem.
 
Blackdogfinn1 said:
Jsega51- i’m looking at a 21 inlay (macassar ebony). How was your inlay coming out and how did you fix it?
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I just happened to notice that the front corner was lifted out, the end 1/4” of the inlay. I think the VHB tape underneath lost it’s bond with the wood.

I put a clamp on it for a few minutes and you could see the inlay was stuck back into place but it slowly lifted up again over an hour or so. I just put some thin superglue down into the recess around that end and shook it a little to get it it flow under the inlay. I clamped it for a few minutes and it’s held for over 24 hours so I’ll just keep an eye on it. I bought it to carry and use so it’s no big deal to fix it myself, CRK would replace the scale and I’d have different wood, I bought this one specifically for the grain pattern.

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pvicenzi said:
The one I just bought had a loctited stop pin screw and shipped with loctite. Must be a known problem.
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Yeah, Tim Reeve has a post on the FB forum about the 31 screws backing out. They include 222 loctite in the box now mostly because the "vibration" of the hardened stop pin causing the screw to back out.
His post wasn't super clear on guidance for using loctite on the pivot screw. And I've been part of a *lot* of opinions on the subject over the last several months.
BHQ returned my Small 31 and said I would have to contact CRK for my pivot screw backing out issue.
I decided to try Blue loctite (purple 222 doesn't set well) on the pivot screw and I realized the female was free spinning when I was tightening down the male (show side) screw. Seems odd to me. So I used a wrench to secure the Female (lock side) from turning while a tightened down the male screw until it was snug, blade was centered, opened with just enough resistance. Let the loctite set for 24hours and it's been 3 days now, opened/closed ~1,000 times now and it's the dream knife I always hoped it would be. Hope this helps others with the issue of the pivot screw backing out on the Sebenza 31.
 
Jack,
That is a lot of work to put a sebenza together. Two wrenches, tightening down to a certain tightness to get good action and loctite that puts the knife out of action for a day is NOT what the 21 or any previous sebenza was about.


Continuing my thoughts...
I have two dozen 21's of most types, large and small. My wife has several more. There is variation among them, for sure. However, they all come apart with one wrench and go back together by just tightening everything down and being done with it. A few minutes and it's good for many more months to come.

It's regrettable the lead communications guy from CR has a post about "bad vibrations" that left people unclear as exactly what to do. The company is pumping knives out like crazy, business is good. I think the changes were to speed up and streamline production, possibly at the cost of what made some previous models special. The 31 is a very very good knife. However, look at the new knife reviews. The last few years has shown SO MUCH CHOICE and the cost per quality ratio is the best ever. Great knives can be had for reasonable prices from many sources. The 31 isn't keeping up to me. I obviously like CRK because I'm heavily invested. I want them to win and keep winning.

To wrap up my gripe fest and contribution to this endless thread... How was the issue not noticed during testing? They noticed the lock bar flex/play/wiggle and said it was part of the new lock. Why did they start including loctite and addressing the issue so far after release?
 
I have disassembled and reassembled my 31 with 1 wrench every time. Never used locktite on it. 0 problems of any kind. July 2020 build (it's my birthday 'benza), and has been carried every day for almost 4 months. There's maybe some lessers out there, but plenty are fine. (I own 5 large and 2 small 21s as well, so I'm familiar with the differences.
 
WedgeAntilles said:
I have disassembled and reassembled my 31 with 1 wrench every time. Never used locktite on it. 0 problems of any kind. July 2020 build (it's my birthday 'benza), and has been carried every day for almost 4 months. There's maybe some lessers out there, but plenty are fine. (I own 5 large and 2 small 21s as well, so I'm familiar with the differences.
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That's great to hear. I've owned 2 31's now and had the same issue with both. Just glad I found a solution. Curious how many times you've opened and closed the 31 between [dis]assemblies?
 
jackghobbies said:
That's great to hear. I've owned 2 31's now and had the same issue with both. Just glad I found a solution. Curious how many times you've opened and closed the 31 between [dis]assemblies?
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Quite a few. I don't flick it open, but I do use it as a fidget regularly. So maybe hundreds in between?
 
Seems a shame we are playing a game with our money! Some seem to be good and others not so much. Urgh!
So what's the answer? Buy all you can and sell the lesser ones off? Wish I had the money for that.
 
russ25 said:
Seems a shame we are playing a game with our money! Some seem to be good and others not so much. Urgh!
So what's the answer? Buy all you can and sell the lesser ones off? Wish I had the money for that.
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This is part of the problem I’m seeing on the Facebook group: several people saying it is ‘normal’ and ‘not an issue’ and ‘every one of my CRK’s do it’ and then a day later they are selling their 31 ‘like new from CRK’ but no mention of the lock rock/lock bar flex in the ad and they won’t admit it’s an issue because then they wouldn’t be able to sell their knife. I’ll pass.
 
smuiradise said:
This is part of the problem I’m seeing on the Facebook group: several people saying it is ‘normal’ and ‘not an issue’ and ‘every one of my CRK’s do it’ and then a day later they are selling their 31 ‘like new from CRK’ but no mention of the lock rock/lock bar flex in the ad and they won’t admit it’s an issue because then they wouldn’t be able to sell their knife. I’ll pass.
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This is a scary thought. The only thing is whether they mention it or not at least you'd be getting at a lower price than retail hoping for the best. It isn't like a dealer is going to say "oh this particular one has a little lock rock/flex etc." I guess it is up to the buyer to ask.

This whole thing makes one wonder. I love Chris Reeve knives as much as the next but received a damascus titanium Delica for around $175 and the thing is spotless, no blade play, perfectly centered, no wiggle, good action (enough to middle finger flick with normal effort), and super solid. At some point it makes one ask the question, is CRK (particularly the 31) worth it at that price given you may or may not experience lock rock or flex? This doesn't even count the issues with the stop pin or lock stick. Whereas one could get 2 brand new Damascus Ti Delicas and some change. I've never even heard of a Delica fail and especially not a titanium one. Can a lock back even develop flex? The only downsize I can find is more parts to disassemble and re-assemble. I never thought I'd be be comparing any knives to CRK in this way but with these common issues one has to start....well wondering. o_O
 
Honed_Edge said:
Jack,
That is a lot of work to put a sebenza together. Two wrenches, tightening down to a certain tightness to get good action and loctite that puts the knife out of action for a day is NOT what the 21 or any previous sebenza was about.
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Shucks that is a lot of hassle and as you say "not was the 21 or any previous Sebenza was about". Spot on and for a knife in this price range of $400 to $550 one would come to hope, to expect no adjustment would be needed to get things "just right" when it comes from the factory. I personally would rather see Chris Reeve slow production down until they can work out these kinks or it could hurt the brand.
 
Gilbert G said:
This whole thing makes one wonder. I love Chris Reeve knives as much as the next but received a damascus titanium Delica for around $175 and the thing is spotless, no blade play, perfectly centered, no wiggle, good action (enough to middle finger flick with normal effort), and super solid. At some point it makes one ask the question, is CRK (particularly the 31) worth it at that price given you may or may not experience lock rock or flex?
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Honda makes the most reliable vehicles but people still get the BMW. CRKs are a luxury item...let's face it...nobody actually needs one.
 
Wow, just came by to see the latest and see if the bugs were worked out. Looking like the new Lockup design isn’t working out too well . There is no way Any of this is “normal”. Hopefully they work the bugs out soon. Love the inlays though.
 
XL883N said:
Honda makes the most reliable vehicles but people still get the BMW. CRKs are a luxury item...let's face it...nobody actually needs one.
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Good point. CRKs are luxury and you can feel it when in the hand as compared to a delica. Even a decked out Ti and damascus Delica is luxury but doesn't feel the same. However if BMW started slipping in mechanical efficiency guarantee a lot more people would be looking toward those decked out Hondas.
 
A bit off topic maybe, but I recently acquired a NIB 21 with a birthday of 2009, so one of the early ones. You even could say it was the golden age of CRK. Anyway I have several newer 21's in various iterations, 2 from 2019 and one from 2015. They are all solid, everything one would expect--beautiful knives. That said, the 2009 knife is noticeably smoother to open, unlock and close, there is noticeably better fit and finish, grind, polishing, lock up just right, everything just all around a bit better--a bit more finely tuned, if you will. Maybe that 2009 knife is just one of the good ones, and they had their bad days back then as well, but my guess is that back then they were making less product and the time from start to finish on a knife was considerably longer, with more oversight and attention to detail. Now they are working on a larger scale with maybe slightly different priorities.
 
Evany said:
A bit off topic maybe, but I recently acquired a NIB 21 with a birthday of 2009, so one of the early ones. You even could say it was the golden age of CRK. Anyway I have several newer 21's in various iterations, 2 from 2019 and one from 2015. They are all solid, everything one would expect--beautiful knives. That said, the 2009 knife is noticeably smoother to open, unlock and close, there is noticeably better fit and finish, grind, polishing, lock up just right, everything just all around a bit better--a bit more finely tuned, if you will. Maybe that 2009 knife is just one of the good ones, and they had their bad days back then as well, but my guess is that back then they were making less product and the time from start to finish on a knife was considerably longer, with more oversight and attention to detail. Now they are working on a larger scale with maybe slightly different priorities.
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I would reckon you're right. Another longtime CRK lover and collector is quoted with saying he loves the 2009 editions and ones before it as well. Is your 2009 a "classic sebenza"? I've owned a couple classics and later 21's but not in the past 5 years. From all the 21's I owned I didn't see much a difference but then again wasn't focused on testing the lock as was under the assumption it was the strongest and best out there with "bank vault lockup" so didn't even question it. Though it is only my opinion but I feel the early couple years of the Hinderer xm-18s were the same way - they just seem to have a bit more attention to detail. You can see it in the stonewash finish, the chamfers, the lockup, the edges, everything seems a little more perfect. One can only hope the 1st couple of years CRK follows this trend but isn't looking that way at least in the first. Maybe it is me but the bead blast finish almost looks lighter in color. Is it possible CRK now uses a slightly different metallurgy combination or variation of titanium and that is why some are seeing lock flex??
 
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