Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

Silverstonev8 said:
So I think I may have figured out what is different on the newer 31s. I haven’t seen this mentioned before so I figured I’d share. I was looking at my 31 and noticed the position of the lock bar cut outs. It got me thinking so I looked at my 21 and noticed they were in a slightly different position. I searched around on the net to find a picture of an early 31 and sure enough it was just like the 21, the cut outs invade the locating hole but on my newer 31 they do not.
Here’s a picture of what I found and the one of mine.
View attachment 1471614 View attachment 1471615
Click to expand...

mine is a D-19 like the photo and the blade flex’s up and down with one finger. Maybe I need to send it in and see if they will replace the lock side.
 
I might as well add my recent experience here as well...

My wife bought me a large Box Elder 31 with November 3rd birth date for Christmas.

The lock flexed enough that the blade moved off of the stop pin when pushing my thump against the jimping. I returned the knife to dealer and bought another 21.
 
So has this issue/non issue been resolved? I've been out of the game 10 + years. I read through the first 15 or so pages of this thread and could not believe the videos of some of these CRK knives with wobbly blades. I am considering a 31, but don't want to buy an inferior product to my 20 year old classix MM. (Which still has bank- vault perfect lock up)

***Ah screw it. Just pulled the trigger on a large box elder 31 from TNK. Crossing fingers that the blade don't wiggle!
 
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BelgiumRofls said:
Likewise. Small 31, birthdate in early Nov.
Mine produced a slite audible and tactile "clicking" when wiggled in hand--not dissimilar to a lockback. Table top test revealed that the edge could be made to contact the tabletop under what I would describe as "moderate" pressure, i.e., pressing down w/two or three fingers. A very helpful CRK rep told me that this sounded out of spec. Some folks will see returning the knife over this flex "issue" as a bit silly, but that clicking was too much for me...

My knife reached CRK on 11/25. I will try to remember to post updates so that you can have some sense of when yours might be on its way back to you!
To think, I sprung for express shipping when I purchased it b/c I didn't want to wait all Thanksgiving weekend to have my first CRK in pocket! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

An update, for @bgrif119 and others who are keeping an eye on this thread:
Unfortunately, my experience has not been as positive as others'. My Nov' 2020 Sebenza was deemed within spec and returned in its original condition. Bearing some elegant means of measuring the distance of blade wiggle and force exerted, I can only really speak to this "issue" of lock flex in subjective terms. I can say unequivocally, 1) my specimen is absolutely not without play, and 2) the blade tang does leave the stop pin if you push on the spine/gimping (in-hand with the thumb, the way you would close a slipjoint, not in some elaborate table-top test), producing an audible and tactile clicking. I won't attempt to describe the issue beyond that.​

My thoughts, in order of importance/generalizability:
  1. Knowing that you must play a "lock-flex lottery" when you purchase a $400 knife from a company like CRK is suboptimal, and knowing you drew one of the short(er) straws is disheartening. Personally, I think this is unacceptable. Sure, the ball-detent-to-lock-flex tradeoff is a matter of preference, but I expect manufacturing consistency within each model given a) the price point and b) the reputation of Chris Reeve Knives.
  2. If you care about lock flex, I would advise against buying sight-unseen, if possible. Of course, everyone already knows this is always the safest route, but maybe you are like me and a) had hoped that CRK would be different, and/or b) have no brick and mortar stores to shop at. This leads me to #3.
  3. I purchased from BladeHQ. I asked in their purchase notes to check for "lock rock". Upon receiving the knife, I called and expressed my doubts as to whether they had fulfilled my request given that my box appeared unopened. I was told that "There are some knives we are not allowed to open". This sounds dubious, and if true, I sure would have like to know that before the knife was shipped across the country! I could have gone ahead with another retailer saved some $60 in back-and-forth shipping and a whole lot of irritation... Frankly, I am more disappointed with BHQ than with CRK.
  4. I love other knives despite their own flaws and foibles. Experience leads me to believe that after a honeymoon period, I won't be thinking about the lock flex much at all, and that other factors will be given much more weight in my evaluation of the knife.
  5. I elected to buy a 31 over a 21 in part because I was concerned that CRK might discontinue their blade replacement service for the 21. Part of the CRK mystique for me was the idea of carrying the same knife for decades, hence the prioritization of replacements blades over repurchasing the knife. This was probably a miscalculation.
  6. To @bgrif119 or others trying to track the turnaround times from CRK, my knife was ready to ship on Dec 30th (arrived @CRKHQ Nov 25th). The reason for my delay in replying is that I waited over the New Years weekend to speak with the folks in service/repair before having them send it back.
I really do like the knife, though! Happy to join the club, even under the less-than-perfect circumstances.
May you have good luck in the lock-flex lottery! :rolleyes:
 
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B BelgiumRofls

Thanks for your post. It’s hard to disagree with your sentiments.
Some have speculated that the flex issue might improve with wear-in. If that’s the case, I’d love to hear about it.
 
BelgiumRofls said:
An update, for @bgrif119 and others who are keeping an eye on this thread:
Unfortunately, my experience has not been as positive as others'. My Nov' 2020 Sebenza was deemed within spec and returned in its original condition. Bearing some elegant means of measuring the distance of blade wiggle and force exerted, I can only really speak to this "issue" of lock flex in subjective terms. I can say unequivocally, 1) my specimen is absolutely not, rock solid, and 2) the blade tang does leave the stop pin if you push on the gimping, producing an audible and tactile clicking. I won't attempt to describe the issue beyond that.​

My thoughts, in order of importance/generalizability:
  1. Knowing that you must play a "lock-flex lottery" when you purchase a $400 knife from a company like CRK is suboptimal, and knowing you drew one of the short(er) straws is disheartening. Personally, I think this is unacceptable. Sure, the ball-detent-to-lock-flex tradeoff is a matter of preference, but I expect manufacturing consistency within each model given a) the price point and b) the reputation of Chris Reeve Knives.
  2. If you care about lock flex, I would advise against buying sight-unseen, if possible. Of course, everyone already knows this is always the safest route, but maybe you are like me and a) had hoped that CRK would be different, and/or b) have no brick and mortar stores to shop at. This leads me to #3.
  3. I purchased from BladeHQ. I asked in their purchase notes to check for "lock rock". Upon receiving the knife, I called and expressed my doubts as to whether they had fulfilled my request given that my box appeared unopened. I was told that "There are some knives we are not allowed to open". This sounds dubious, and if true, I sure would have like to know that before the knife was shipped across the country! I could have gone ahead with another retailer saved some $60 in back-and-forth shipping and a whole lot of irritation... Frankly, I am more disappointed with BHQ than with CRK.
  4. I love other knives despite their own flaws and foibles. Experience leads me to believe that after a honeymoon period, I won't be thinking about the lock flex much at all, and that other factors will be given much more weight in my evaluation of the knife.
  5. I elected to buy a 31 over a 21 in part because I was concerned that CRK might discontinue their blade replacement service for the 21. Part of the CRK mystique for me was the idea of carrying the same knife for decades, hence the prioritization of replacements blades over repurchasing the knife. This was probably a miscalculation.
  6. To @bgrif119 or others trying to track the turnaround times from CRK, my knife was ready to ship on Dec 30th (arrived @CRKHQ Nov 25th). The reason for my delay in replying is that I waited over the New Years weekend to speak with the folks in service/repair before having them send it back.
I really do like the knife, though! Happy to join the club, even under the less-than-perfect circumstances.
May you have good luck in the lock-flex lottery! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Extremely disappointing. It seems that CRK customer service is going the way of their design and manufacturing; downhill. It seems that the company has lost it's way a bit. That's a shame.
 
You know...at first when this thread came about, I was really butt hurt about the fact that these knives would do this. Now I’ve had many crks over the years and two of them were inkosi’s. One large and one small. And I beat the absolute crap out of both of them. I even made a thread on here about me pummeling the small inkosi. It was bad enough that some people were calling me crazy for batonnning with it, among other things. My large was beat on hard also. I threw everything I could at both of them. But one thing I never thought of or attempted to try was a table flex test or even the lockup in my hand. The more I think about this, and every time I come back to read through here, I wonder if those inkosi’s were the same but I never knew it and it didn’t matter anyhow. I am currently sitting here at work with a case trapper in my pocket. A knife with no lock what so ever. Most days I have this or a medium stockman in my pocket along with another larger folder. And I must say.....the majority of the time I am using the traditional to cut everything and the thought never crossed my mind that the blade will close on my fingers. Because I’m careful and mindful of what I’m doing.

I guess what I am trying to get at is.....aside from a few here that had side to side blade play(not acceptable in my eyes on a 400$+ knife). Maybe these have had this all along and it just never mattered. I don’t know......just random thoughts this morning.
 
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lGizler00, I understand your perspective on the issue. I've used my Inkosi pretty hard too. I love it and the rest of my CRK blades.
My take is there is no way I'd be happy with a $400+ folder that has lock rock so bad it "clicks" as the blade comes off of the stop pin by putting your thumb or finger on the jimping. That's unacceptable to me on a Spyderco Delica let alone a piece of machining art like the model 31. Then to have CRK customer service tell the purchaser send it in because it sounds out of spec, only to return it with no work done and a note saying it's fine. After all that hassle he has the same blade back with the same issues with no work done? Really? Sorry but that's not the CRK I've supported since the 90's.
 
The trouble is with the people who make them period, sometimes they care somtimes they don't. All their wild boasts on space age tollerances , get over yourself CRK
 
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BelgiumRofls said:
An update, for @bgrif119 and others who are keeping an eye on this thread:
Unfortunately, my experience has not been as positive as others'. My Nov' 2020 Sebenza was deemed within spec and returned in its original condition. Bearing some elegant means of measuring the distance of blade wiggle and force exerted, I can only really speak to this "issue" of lock flex in subjective terms. I can say unequivocally, 1) my specimen is absolutely not, rock solid, and 2) the blade tang does leave the stop pin if you push on the gimping, producing an audible and tactile clicking. I won't attempt to describe the issue beyond that.​

My thoughts, in order of importance/generalizability:
  1. Knowing that you must play a "lock-flex lottery" when you purchase a $400 knife from a company like CRK is suboptimal, and knowing you drew one of the short(er) straws is disheartening. Personally, I think this is unacceptable. Sure, the ball-detent-to-lock-flex tradeoff is a matter of preference, but I expect manufacturing consistency within each model given a) the price point and b) the reputation of Chris Reeve Knives.
  2. If you care about lock flex, I would advise against buying sight-unseen, if possible. Of course, everyone already knows this is always the safest route, but maybe you are like me and a) had hoped that CRK would be different, and/or b) have no brick and mortar stores to shop at. This leads me to #3.
  3. I purchased from BladeHQ. I asked in their purchase notes to check for "lock rock". Upon receiving the knife, I called and expressed my doubts as to whether they had fulfilled my request given that my box appeared unopened. I was told that "There are some knives we are not allowed to open". This sounds dubious, and if true, I sure would have like to know that before the knife was shipped across the country! I could have gone ahead with another retailer saved some $60 in back-and-forth shipping and a whole lot of irritation... Frankly, I am more disappointed with BHQ than with CRK.
  4. I love other knives despite their own flaws and foibles. Experience leads me to believe that after a honeymoon period, I won't be thinking about the lock flex much at all, and that other factors will be given much more weight in my evaluation of the knife.
  5. I elected to buy a 31 over a 21 in part because I was concerned that CRK might discontinue their blade replacement service for the 21. Part of the CRK mystique for me was the idea of carrying the same knife for decades, hence the prioritization of replacements blades over repurchasing the knife. This was probably a miscalculation.
  6. To @bgrif119 or others trying to track the turnaround times from CRK, my knife was ready to ship on Dec 30th (arrived @CRKHQ Nov 25th). The reason for my delay in replying is that I waited over the New Years weekend to speak with the folks in service/repair before having them send it back.
I really do like the knife, though! Happy to join the club, even under the less-than-perfect circumstances.
May you have good luck in the lock-flex lottery! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

AMEN
 
Gizler00 said:
You know...at first when this thread came about, I was really butt hurt about the fact that these knives would do this. Now I’ve had many crks over the years and two of them were inkosi’s. One large and one small. And I beat the absolute crap out of both of them. I even made a thread on here about me pummeling the small inkosi. It was bad enough that some people were calling me crazy for batonnning with it, among other things. My large was beat on hard also. I threw everything I could at both of them. But one thing I never thought of or attempted to try was a table flex test or even the lockup in my hand. The more I think about this, and every time I come back to read through here, I wonder if those inkosi’s were the same but I never knew it and it didn’t matter anyhow. I am currently sitting here at work with a case trapper in my pocket. A knife with no lock what so ever. Most days I have this or a medium stockman in my pocket along with another larger folder. And I must say.....the majority of the time I am using the traditional to cut everything and the thought never crossed my mind that the blade will close on my fingers. Because I’m careful and mindful of what I’m doing.

I guess what I am trying to get at is.....aside from a few here that had side to side blade play(not acceptable in my eyes on a 400$+ knife). Maybe these have had this all along and it just never mattered. I don’t know......just random thoughts this morning.
Click to expand...

I think your explanation--that many people are simultaneously noticing a quality of the lock interface that went unnoticed in previous models--is plausible, and I agree with the spirit of your post. (An amusing historical tidbit that illustrates a similar phenomena: https://w.wiki/tYL).

In the case of my small 31 (which not one but two CRK techs deemed in spec), flex can be induced by holding the knife in a hammer grip and pressing down on the jimped area of the spine with the pad of my thumb (how you might close a slipjoint into the half-stop position). It's not a strain to flex it this way, and I have handled stiff slipjoints which required a similar degree force to drop into the half-stop. Imprecision of measurement aside, the blade tip appears to wiggle up and down no more that 1/8th of an inch before this flexing action bottoms out.
I don't point this out b/c there's any reason to do this in normal use. Rather, I think this degree of flexibility in the locking arm is too conspicuous to have gone unnoticed before folks starting going out of their way to to invent/perform table top tests. Others who have units like mine are likely to notice this flex whether on not they see these thread and YouTube videos.

In my opinion, if your knife is solid in hand and flexes a bit on the table, be happy and accept that a) this is a silly measure of a knife's build quality akin to spinewacking to test lock strength, and b) the flex may be a worthwhile tradeoff of the ball interface. Conspicuous in-hand flexing is--I think--a legitimate gripe, and a QC/design issue that the brand would benefit from solving.
 
I can’t believe anyone is still trying to justify this issue as being ok. Clearly Tim and Co are taking CRK in a new direction. I guess they can do that if they want. But anyone who thinks Chris would’ve accepted this is lying to themselves. Chris built the company and the reputation and put his name on it. It was handed to Tim and obviously he did not inherit Chris’s obsessive attention to detail, tolerances, and perfection, or there wouldn’t be a 65+ page thread about excessive blade play on a knife advertised as bank vault lockup. Disappointing but there’s enough fanboys to continue buying them and defend them so where is CRK’s motivation to improve?
 
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