Sebenza washers, non OEM

353

353

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Ok, so I live in scandinavia and had an idea of getting some spare washers for a small 21.

I tried to get CRK to send them to me and got a instant "No, sorry" with some additioanl story on how hard it is to hand fit these. I then asked if she could ask her superiors if their rules actually was that hard on us non US customers; shipping insured would be 50-100$ and the wait probably 2 months pluss and risking to loose the knife as well(sebenza 21, NOT easily replaced...).

Then got this:

" I spoke in detail with Tim Reeve about your specific situation to see if we could accommodate your request. He explained that as much as we would love to make an exception because we do realize the time and expense of sending your knife to us, we can't send out Sebenza washers without them being fit to the Sebenza. If they aren't fit properly, it can cause other issues to your knife, and this would ultimately result in your knife requiring service anyways."

Soooo while also telling me I'm too incompetent to take of a few micro mms of a washer they also between the lines politely told me "screw u, we dont care for non US customers, good luck and DONT F UP YOUR WASHERS!!"

This has led me to try to hunt down some non OEM pb washers for a small 21.

So have anybody done this or heard of someone who did it? Or have a link to a thread where this has been resolved?

I'm posting this in both GKD and the CRK forum to try to get as much usefull help as possible.

Thanks
 
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Measure the current washers for it with a micrometer/calipers and pick up a set of PB washers online. Some fine sandpaper and frequent measuring with a micrometer should get you what you need. It's not rocket science.

Remember to apply light even pressure while rubbing them against the sand paper.
 
Honestly that sounds like an excuse (from CRK) to me.

I don't know what all the involved "hand fitting" with washers is about. You pick a thickness for your knife, you select the I.D. for your pivot pin size, you make sure the O.D. isn't too large to interfere with lockbar or detent and a quick check and polish.

Washers come in a variety of sizes and thicknesses. They're pretty uniform and very flat and pretty smooth usually. A quick polish and you're usually done.

I don't spend more than 2 minutes tops fiddling with my washers.

I don't understand some of these companies acting like they spend hours, or days, custom making and hand fitting washers. It just isn't that hard.
 
shinyedges said:
Measure the current washers for it with a micrometer/calipers and pick up a set of PB washers online. Some fine sandpaper and frequent measuring with a micrometer should get you what you need. It's not rocket science.

Remember to apply light even pressure while rubbing them against the sand paper.
Click to expand...

J. Doyle said:
Honestly that sounds like an excuse (from CRK) to me.

I don't know what all the involved "hand fitting" with washers is about. You pick a thickness for your knife, you select the I.D. for your pivot pin size, you make sure the O.D. isn't too large to interfere with lockbar or detent and a quick check and polish.

Washers come in a variety of sizes and thicknesses. They're pretty uniform and very flat and pretty smooth usually. A quick polish and you're usually done.

I don't spend more than 2 minutes tops fiddling with my washers.

I don't understand some of these companies acting like they spend hours, or days, custom making and hand fitting washers. It just isn't that hard.
Click to expand...

Thanks for understanding.

What is the best online store selling washers WW or to the EU?
 
J. Doyle said:
Honestly that sounds like an excuse (from CRK) to me.

I don't know what all the involved "hand fitting" with washers is about. You pick a thickness for your knife, you select the I.D. for your pivot pin size, you make sure the O.D. isn't too large to interfere with lockbar or detent and a quick check and polish.

Washers come in a variety of sizes and thicknesses. They're pretty uniform and very flat and pretty smooth usually. A quick polish and you're usually done.

I don't spend more than 2 minutes tops fiddling with my washers.

I don't understand some of these companies acting like they spend hours, or days, custom making and hand fitting washers. It just isn't that hard.
Click to expand...
To be fair, CRK's are a bit different from most other makers in the sense that the pivot isn't designed to be adjustable. They want you to crank it down, and for that to work, the thickness of the washers has to be pretty precise. Like, to a hundredth of a mm precise. Which ... still isn't rocket science if you have a decent digital caliper or micrometer.
 
In their defense, I have played around with swapping washers/blades on sebenzas and it always ended up in some play being introduced until I put them back in their original configuration. They seem to be pretty sensitive to minute differences.
 
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353 said:
Thanks for understanding.

What is the best online store selling washers WW or to the EU?
Click to expand...
That I'm not sure on my friend. I would imagine that any place that sells them in the US would ship to Europe.

If you measured them and knew the size, it should be easy to order something close.

It is possible that companies special order huge quantities of a custom size for their own knives but I still don't believe they spend very much time at all "hand fitting" washers.

And even still, 1. I personally don't understand the big deal with just shipping someone some washers for a fee and 2. It should be easy enough to get some that are close and tune them to proper size yourself.
 
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3D Anvil said:
To be fair, CRK's are a bit different from most other makers in the sense that the pivot isn't designed to be adjustable. They want you to crank it down, and for that to work, the thickness of the washers has to be pretty precise. Like, to a hundredth of a mm precise. Which ... still isn't rocket science if you have a decent digital caliper or micrometer.
Click to expand...

Ratcreature said:
In their defense, I have played around with swapping washers/blades on sebenzas and it always ended up in some play being introduced until I put them back in their original configuration. They seem to be pretty sensitive to minute differences.
Click to expand...

Still I'd REALLY like to try for myself, be it that I get to purchase a washer that is almost the same thickness, I mean we have all seen the CRK factory vids where they show how they fit stuff; rub it in a figure 8 a few times, install it and try the action. Like J. Doyle J. Doyle said this is not rocket science...
 
353 said:
Still I'd REALLY like to try for myself, be it that I get to purchase a washer that is almost the same thickness, I mean we have all seen the CRK factory vids where they show how they fit stuff; rub it in a figure 8 a few times, install it and try the action. Like J. Doyle J. Doyle said this is not rocket science...
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's really not hard. Here's an excellent demonstration:

 
One of the reasons I keep such a large selection of BP washers on hand is so I can stack washers if necessary to get the right thickness in the event that a single washer isn't right.

I personally don't recommend sanding washers by hand, particularly for a precision knife like a Sebenza, because I don't think you are going to get an even surface. It might look even, but I doubt it. Some part of the surface is likely going to end up being thicker than others. I'm not saying it won't work, but I recommend stacking over sanding whenever possible.

As far as US vendors that sell internationally, USAKnifemaker.com indicates on their website that they do. They have a large assortment of BP washers (as well as washers of other materials). That's where I purchased the majority of mine. If I recall correctly USAKnifemaker sell BP washers in minimum batches of 5 pairs each. But they are rather inexpensive.

My suggestion is that after determining the best inner and outer diameter washers to buy (based on measurements of the stock washers) that you purchase each thickness available in that size so you can mix and match until you get the right lever of thickness. It can take a bit of trial and error to accomplish this (repeatedly disassembling and re-assembling the knife).

It's possible to enlarge the inner diameter (round file), and reduce the outer diameter (flat file), and still have them work, because unlike sanding the sides, the inner and outer edges of the washers aren't affecting the width of the pivot. However you're not going to be able to alter the ID of a washer under .010, the reason being that the next size down is .005, and that's too thin to be filed (slightly thicker than foil). Although you might be able to trim them with sharp scissors or shears.


Oi5jtPB.jpg
 
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killgar said:
I personally don't recommend sanding washers by hand, particularly for a precision knife like a Sebenza, because I don't think you are going to get an even surface. It might look even, but I doubt it. Some part of the surface is likely going to end up being thicker than others. I'm not saying it won't work, but I recommend stacking over sanding whenever possible.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping to get hold of a washer that is so close that only some "sanding" on a fine benchstone will fit it. But that may be hard 🤷‍♂️
 
Yeah on one hand I can see why companies have blanket policies like this. All it takes is one customer to throw in ill fitting washers, have blade play, lock rock, or worse some kind of catastrophic failure and then run to internet forums like this to tell the world about it and next thing you know, you have a major PR issue on your hand and its hard to get rid of the stigma.

That being said, as others have pointed out its not rocket science and it would be nice if they just shot you some washers over with a written caveat of "these will probably fit but if they dont, thats on you" kind of thing.
 
353 said:
I'm hoping to get hold of a washer that is so close that only some "sanding" on a fine benchstone will fit it. But that may be hard 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

If CRK is hand sanding washers, and they work, then I would certainly defer to them on the subject. :)
 
killgar said:
One of the reasons I keep such a large selection of BP washers on hand is so I can stack washers if necessary to get the right thickness in the event that a single washer isn't right.

I personally don't recommend sanding washers by hand, particularly for a precision knife like a Sebenza, because I don't think you are going to get an even surface. It might look even, but I doubt it. Some part of the surface is likely going to end up being thicker than others. I'm not saying it won't work, but I recommend stacking over sanding whenever possible.

As far as US vendors that sell internationally, USAKnifemaker.com indicates on their website that they do. They have a large assortment of BP washers (as well as washers of other materials). That's where I purchased the majority of mine. If I recall correctly USAKnifemaker sell BP washers in minimum batches of 5 pairs each. But they are rather inexpensive.

My suggestion is that after determining the best inner and outer diameter washers to buy (based on measurements of the stock washers) that you purchase each thickness available in that size so you can mix and match until you get the right lever of thickness. It can take a bit of trial and error to accomplish this (repeatedly disassembling and re-assembling the knife).

It's possible to enlarge the inner diameter (round file), and reduce the outer diameter (flat file), and still have them work, because unlike sanding the sides, the inner and outer edges of the washers aren't affecting the width of the pivot. However you're not going to be able to alter the ID of a washer under .010, the reason being that the next size down is .005, and that's too thin to be filed (slightly thicker than foil). Although you might be able to trim them with sharp scissors or shears.


Oi5jtPB.jpg
Click to expand...
With a set of mics measuring flatness is easy. If even pressure on the washer results in several tenths thicker in a section of the washer it can be measured and dealt with accordingly. I highly doubt even Crks gets washers flat to the tenth. We're talking the 4th decimal place. .0001

I think people over think this. I make parts to the tenth that get measured with a cmm, vision system and mics.
 
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