I never paid close attention, but after about a month of owning a Sebenza with Damascus blade I notice my washers are spinning. When I went to clean my knife I notice they had rubbed a circle into the titanium scales on both sides. Now I clean and am careful to just lube the knife facing sides of the washers and they still spin. I know they are not supposed to spin. What are my options?
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Sebenza washers spin no matter what I try
- Thread starter Tseg
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BellaBlades
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Ignore it. They are washers its OK.
Also you can tighten the knife a bit more. The bushing may be a bit large or your being cautious when you assemble. Crank it down.
My CF Lg 21 has a stationary small washer and a 50/50 spinning large. It's wonderful.
Send it to me. I will figure it out.
Also you can tighten the knife a bit more. The bushing may be a bit large or your being cautious when you assemble. Crank it down.
My CF Lg 21 has a stationary small washer and a 50/50 spinning large. It's wonderful.
Send it to me. I will figure it out.
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Honestly ideally they are not supposed to spin but its not a big deal if they do.
You could try loosening the pivot a tiny bit, the other fixed I can think of are fairly intrusive.
More intrusive options are Polishing the sides of the tang or roughing up the inside of the scales where the washers sit; I wouldn’t recommend it.
If I were you I would just try the pivot, if that doesn’t work live with it or send to crk if it really bothered me.
It is my small washer spinning with reckless abandon. Not so much with my large washer.
BellaBlades
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That's crazy. The small is designed to stick.
I'm reporting your post. Lol. Just kidding.
Don't over lube one side or the other.
Take it apart. Lube everything light and equaly.. Re assemble and tighten the screws better. Just enough that the long end of the Allen key flexes a bit.
If it still spins and your blade drops totally free when the lock bar pressure is removed. The bushing is out if whack. You should also be able to feel horizontal blade play if you try .
OK, I just tried something that may be dumb, but seems to have given me progress. I applied a couple of very light specs of Loctite 222 to the outside of each washer with a toothpick and let it dry, then reinserted the blade. The washers are no longer spinning! My thinking is now the washer can break in properly, keeping the shiny sides shiny and bogging down the other formerly shiny sides that face the scales. Interestingly the knife action has now gone back to like it was in the early days, with 'hydraulic' but somewhat restrained opening ability. I'm thinking this will all break in all over again. Worse case I can ultrasonic clean the washers to get an residue off if it somehow becomes an issue.
BellaBlades
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My concern is titanium wear on a washer could be more severe than smooth steel wear on a washer... or washer wears away titanium scale creating unfixable problem long term.
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Did you put the washer down before you put the grease on? Ideally you would do that so the washer won't move but the blade. Ie grease only touching blade and washer.
Grease will likely get all over but generally that helps with the moving.
Its okay if it moves, you can always get more washers if they wear out sooner.
Grease will likely get all over but generally that helps with the moving.
Its okay if it moves, you can always get more washers if they wear out sooner.
SVTFreak
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Don't think that'll be an issue. The PB is much softer than either metal. And the grease allows the parts the slide together and not wear. I've never heard of one wearing out like that.
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I’ve been carrying large and small 21s, almost every day of my life, for about 4 years.
I have eight 21s that are users. The washers spin on all of them. Both large washers and small washers, old style and new style washers. The washers do not always spin, but they often do.
The truth from someone who uses their 21s, all the time:
1-When the knife is freshly serviced, the washers typically don’t spin as the friction between the washer and the greased blade is lower than the friction between the bone dry titanium and the washers.
2-Over the days following the service, there will be some leakage of grease to the titanium surface no matter how careful you are, or how little lube you use. At this point the friction between the titanium and the washer may at times be less than the friction between the blade and the washer. This is because the bead-blasted Ti surface is actually fairly slippery due to the relatively small surface area in contact with the washer (peaks of the blast surface), and the shiney surface of the blade tends to suction to the washer with grease. Sometimes the washers will spin against both the slab and the blade at different times during the blade deployment. Sometimes one or the other will spin. Sometimes neither will spin (yay!).
3- over the years the titanium surface will fill in with some copper coloured washer residue and smooth out, making the likelyhood of a spinning washer even more of a thing.
4- this effect of spinning washers will bother your OCD.
5- however, the spinning washers will make ZERO difference to the feel, action, lockup, lifespan, tolerance, or usefulness of the knife. My most used 21s all have had spinning washers and all are solid, smooth, centered, and lock up perfect.
6-Do not mod your knife to correct this problem. It is not a problem.
7-Fellas who think this is a problem do not have enough experience with this knife model, or rarely carry or use their 21s as I do.
8- Although it is not a problem, the spinning washers on the 21 clearly bothered Chris Reeve as well as he designed the non-spinning washers on the 25 and Inkosi. He must have been OCD
Hope this helps. All is good with your knife.
I have eight 21s that are users. The washers spin on all of them. Both large washers and small washers, old style and new style washers. The washers do not always spin, but they often do.
The truth from someone who uses their 21s, all the time:
1-When the knife is freshly serviced, the washers typically don’t spin as the friction between the washer and the greased blade is lower than the friction between the bone dry titanium and the washers.
2-Over the days following the service, there will be some leakage of grease to the titanium surface no matter how careful you are, or how little lube you use. At this point the friction between the titanium and the washer may at times be less than the friction between the blade and the washer. This is because the bead-blasted Ti surface is actually fairly slippery due to the relatively small surface area in contact with the washer (peaks of the blast surface), and the shiney surface of the blade tends to suction to the washer with grease. Sometimes the washers will spin against both the slab and the blade at different times during the blade deployment. Sometimes one or the other will spin. Sometimes neither will spin (yay!).
3- over the years the titanium surface will fill in with some copper coloured washer residue and smooth out, making the likelyhood of a spinning washer even more of a thing.
4- this effect of spinning washers will bother your OCD.
5- however, the spinning washers will make ZERO difference to the feel, action, lockup, lifespan, tolerance, or usefulness of the knife. My most used 21s all have had spinning washers and all are solid, smooth, centered, and lock up perfect.
6-Do not mod your knife to correct this problem. It is not a problem.
7-Fellas who think this is a problem do not have enough experience with this knife model, or rarely carry or use their 21s as I do.
8- Although it is not a problem, the spinning washers on the 21 clearly bothered Chris Reeve as well as he designed the non-spinning washers on the 25 and Inkosi. He must have been OCD
Hope this helps. All is good with your knife.
I do have a small Inkosi... got that before the Sebenza. It is designed amazingly. I got the Sebenza eventually because the accolades of owners... how could I be a CRK owner without a Sebenza?, but between the two-click (click-clack) lock-up, the unlock rub coming off the tang and now the spinning washers I'm still trying to reconcile my appreciation for this knife. The blade and no-frills scale shape are amazing, I'll give it that. I'll take kidcongo's word to not worry about a spinning washer relative to knife/washer durability. It is just I saw another thread about Sebenza maintenance and it was pretty clear that the bushing design is intended to not have the washers spin, which makes all the sense in the world, so was concerned I had an issue with mine.
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If this is true, ALL of my 21s are defective right out of the box. The actual truth is, there is not a single design element of the 21 to prevent spinning washers, which is why they sometimes will spin, for the aforementioned reasons.
I digress......I love the 21, but it’s certainly not “for everyone”. It is, however, an excellent tool for everyone. As knife in the hand of someone who has no knowledge of double-clicks, spinning washers, pivot bushings, locating holes etc., and is not an OCD “knife guy”, the Sebenza truly comes into its own as an excellent pocket knife.
I sometimes envy the people who walk into a brick and mortar knife store once, say “give me the best knife you got”, and walk out with a 21 as their only knife, and lifelong companion. Ignorance is bliss.
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BellaBlades
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∆∆ This bushing does not prevent washer spin. Unlike the PM2. PM2 and others have a bushing that matches the blade thickness only and it pins the washers down between the bushing and steel liner.
That is a different design entirely and can result in deformed washers if you tighten it too much.
It is what it is. The Inkosi is designed to keep them in place a bit better. But there is a still a few thousandths of moment where the washers fit against the stop pin. Mine moved that tiny bit.
I just looked and both of mine spin whichever way they please and it is super smooth and broken in. The best advice I can give is tighten it up , use it and leave it alone.
The only thing I might prefer would be if the Sebenza had dual thumb studs factory like the Inkosi. I'm still debating on if I want them installed someday. I don't really need them and Id rather nobody tinker with my knife
I'm extremely OCD about things that are within my control. The 21 checks the most boxes for me for now.
That is a different design entirely and can result in deformed washers if you tighten it too much.
It is what it is. The Inkosi is designed to keep them in place a bit better. But there is a still a few thousandths of moment where the washers fit against the stop pin. Mine moved that tiny bit.
I just looked and both of mine spin whichever way they please and it is super smooth and broken in. The best advice I can give is tighten it up , use it and leave it alone.
The only thing I might prefer would be if the Sebenza had dual thumb studs factory like the Inkosi. I'm still debating on if I want them installed someday. I don't really need them and Id rather nobody tinker with my knife
I'm extremely OCD about things that are within my control. The 21 checks the most boxes for me for now.
BellaBlades
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Ok. I'll buy this, whichever side of the washer has the least resistance will spin, so locking the washer in place is theoretically unoptimized and explains why my Sebenza experienced more resistance once I 'modified' my washers to not spin. I have gone back and cleaned my washers and carefully re-greased just the blade side of my washers... my blade is back to swinging more freely and my little washer is back to spinning. Makes me wonder why I just don't grease the scale side of the washer as well?
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None of the half dozen or so of my 21's have ever exhibited washers spinning. I however do strop on the blade side of my washers and leave the scale side alone. I also prefer a cranked down pivot. A PJ that I have regularly carried for about 5 years has no spin and that damn thing is out of my pocket at least a dozen times a day not including my dinner. I guess everyone's mileage varies.