Secondary bevel on a Kiridashi?

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Hey all, about to start my second knife, a small 4.5" Kiridashi (for leather work/general purpose). I was wondering if you all generally add a secondary bevel? My gut feeling is that they look much better without one.

I was also thinking that I'd try acid etching and stonewashing this one. I'm kind of at a loss as to how people do a stonewash the entire knife all the way down to the edge and keep it sharp without adding a secondary bevel?
 
You can make it however you like, but I personally prefer the traditional single bevel.
As for acid stonewashed finishes, the final sharpening is typically done after, so you’ll lose the finish at the bevel.
 
If used as a true kiridashi, the bevel is a single bevel to zero edge. These knives are used to trim string, sharpen shop and art pencils, and mark wood for cutting.
Many folks add a tiny "micro-bevel" that is barely imperceptible. This keeps the edge from chipping too easily.
If making it to be a utility knife, then a small secondary would make for a tougher ( but slightly less sharp) edge.
 
I like to give a secondary bevel on the back/flat side. Makes edge maintenance and sheathing easier too, if it's for carry. If going to zero on the main bevel, stick with the low-carbide steels for edge stability- 1070-1084 and AEB-L and similar. I learned the hard way that 154CM, CPM154, and S35VN didn't stand up so well at the edge geometry I wanted out of a 'dashi, and had to steepen my secondaries even. I'll be sticking with AEB-L and 1084 for 'dashi moving forward, except for scraps.
 
daizee said:
I like to give a secondary bevel on the back/flat side. Makes edge maintenance and sheathing easier too, if it's for carry. If going to zero on the main bevel, stick with the low-carbide steels for edge stability- 1070-1084 and AEB-L and similar. I learned the hard way that 154CM, CPM154, and S35VN didn't stand up so well at the edge geometry I wanted out of a 'dashi, and had to steepen my secondaries even. I'll be sticking with AEB-L and 1084 for 'dashi moving forward, except for scraps.
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Good call! I'm using 1080, but the secondary bevel" the back sounds good. This may be a good opportunity to try sharpening on my grinder.. Not sure I'll be able to use my hapstone v7 on this little guy.
 
If you want to maintain that chisel grind you can put that secondary bevel on the main grind as well and that way you have the back side perfectly flat which really comes in handy
 
I know it's not traditional but what about giving the back a shallow hollow grind. I imagine that would be to fragile but could make a field scalpel.
 
You can put urasuki on one, but there is no reason to. The blae is small enough to not need it in sharpening and flaening the back.
 
I add a secondary bevel on the grind side of my kiridashi.

Most of my kiridashi have tall, thin grinds. I don't think the edge would hold up over the long term without a secondary bevel.
 
I prefer full double bevels for utility purposes. Obviously, single bevel knives excel at marking, but I actually prefer a single bevel double edged knife for marking. Kiridashi do a good job for marking with one hand in one direction, but you will find that you will miss that other side sooner than you think. For cutting leather or similar, I would think a single bevel would be ideal if cutting along a straight edge, but if cutting freehand will tend to wander.
 
That is a perfect example of why a kiridashi needs a tsukuri to fit the task it will be used for. Literally, "different strokes for different folks"
 
skillgannon said:
I know it's not traditional but what about giving the back a shallow hollow grind. I imagine that would be to fragile but could make a field scalpel.
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Actually, it IS traditional. :) There's not a kiridashi in Japan without an urasuki. It's what allows the knives to be used they way they are, making precise cuts in wood, bamboo, etc.
 
make a test mule for your own use and see which works best. trying to make a "Rimbyo" to mythical Japanese specs is like herding cats, lots of work with no real results.
 
I'm not sure adding urasuki (hollow back) qualifies as mythical Japanese specs; it's just a feature that all Japanese single bevel knives have. I will say that grinding urasuki on kiridashi is quite challenging, because of the blade's triangular profile. It's like playing a game of Operation - don't hit the sides! Often the hollow is initially forged in, or shaved with a sen. However, some makers just grind it in after heat treatment.

Kiridashi are usually used held in the right hand, with the left holding the wood. The left thumb is than used to push the spine of the blade, making shavings. If there's no urasuki and there's an angled back bevel, you have to angle the blade up a bit more to initiate the cut, which I find personally to be awkward.

Edit: re: the OP's question, from what I've seen, kiridashi occasionally have a tiny microbevel on the top side for added strength, but usually it's just a zero grind. On mine, I like the microbevel.
 
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Tenebr0s said:
I'm not sure adding urasuki (hollow back) qualifies as mythical Japanese specs; it's just a feature that all Japanese single bevel knives have. I will say that grinding urasuki on kiridashi is quite challenging, because of the blade's triangular profile. It's like playing a game of Operation - don't hit the sides! Often the hollow is initially forged in, or shaved with a sen. However, some makers just grind it in after heat treatment.

Kiridashi are usually used held in the right hand, with the left holding the wood. The left thumb is than used to push the spine of the blade, making shavings. If there's no urasuki and there's an angled back bevel, you have to angle the blade up a bit more to initiate the cut, which I find personally to be awkward.

Edit: re: the OP's question, from what I've seen, kiridashi occasionally have a tiny microbevel on the top side for added strength, but usually it's just a zero grind. On mine, I like the microbevel.
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Thanks for the tips everyone. Assuming I bring the chisel grind down to 0, what angle constitutes a microbevel in this case? I tried setting my Kiridashi on my Hapstone v7 and it looks like I will be able to use that to set it, which is nice.
 
AVigil said:
If you want to maintain that chisel grind you can put that secondary bevel on the main grind as well and that way you have the back side perfectly flat which really comes in handy
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It IS handy to have a perfectly flat side!
I should have mentioned that I grind my kiridashi in reverse, which is to say I put the major grind on the side facing the user (assuming handedness) and the secondary on the back side. This allows you to very naturally lay the main bevel flat on a surface while having relief away from the piece to shave it. With the secondary on the grind side (chisel-style) you have to lay the entire knife flat on the surface, which is cumbersome.
 
I do not understand . . . . IF the bevel is a single bevel to zero edge then that is chisel grind , right ? If you sharpen that bevel from both side it is no more chisel grind .................it become classic V grind ???
 
Completed my first Kiridashi (second knife as well).. These little bevels really are trickier than they look! I'm super happy with how the acid stonewash turned out, and I definitely acknowledge that I didn't really sand well enough (note the big ass scratch on the bevel). At any rate, I'm happy with it and I'll be making more. I think I might stick to making simple small knives like this for the next few.

A side note, after playing around with it, I understand and agree with J joedhiggins 's comment about this style of knife wandering when doing a freehand cut.

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Natlek said:
I do not understand . . . . IF the bevel is a single bevel to zero edge then that is chisel grind , right ? If you sharpen that bevel from both side it is no more chisel grind .................it become classic V grind ???
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Correct,

It gives the appearance of a chisel grind but it is not.
 
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