Self defence knife - which one?

[JackStraw.308]

Hi, just so you know, I'm from the UK. I'm an avid shooter and although I keep my firearms securely locked away, it is very reassuring to have them nearby at night, if you know what I mean.
However, I obviously can't carry guns in the street, and I wouldn't want to. Tasers, pepper spray and such are illegal here and I wouldn't be very happy carrying either to be honest.
So, I'd like a knife to carry with me for self defence purposes. In the UK, we can carry knives in public provided they can fold and they have a blade shorter than 3" (we can carry any knife, but you need a 'good reason' for that, like being a rock climber or a hunter).
Also, it needs to be under £80 which is about $160 (not because of the law, because that's my budget lol) but the cheaper the better. Also, it cannot be an automatic, as they are illegal here. However, it CAN be a semi-auto, infact it has to be really as I wouldn't liek to fiddle about folding a blade when I'm being mugged.

I was looking at the Kershaw Ken Onion series of knives. Here is the selection available easily in the UK (I can import, but it would cost more):

http://www.bkcg.co.uk/products/manu/kershaw/index.html

To save you checking, the onle ones applicable are the:

Kershaw Ken Onion Chive

Kershaw Ken Onion Leek

Kershaw Ken Onion Smoked Chive

Kershaw Ken Onion Smoked Leek

Kershaw Ken Onion Scallion

Kershaw Ken Onion Blur

Kershaw Ken Onion Rainbow Chive

Kershaw Ken Onion Leek Rainbow

Kershaw Ken Onion Scallion Blue

Kershaw Speedsafe Whirlwind

I'd prefer one with a gripped handle so it's easier to hold. I know those arn't very long blades (all shoter than 3") but as I understand it, a shorter blade can be an assett. I know these knives are renound for their speed and safety, but are they useful for self-defence, and if not, what should I get? And will they remain safe if I was to actually stab or slash someone with them?

Any help is much appreciated. If talking about knives for self-defence purposes is frowned upon or not allowed here, I apologise.

 

[bquinlan]

My understanding, from many UK posters over the years, is that locking knives are also illegal in the UK. Sadly, that eliminates everything on your list.

If you want to remain legal, your best bet may be Spyderco's new "UK Pen Knife". It was specifically designed as a utility and self-defense knife for those in the UK.

--Bob Q

 

[raghorn]

Your most effective EDC for self-defense:

User is responsible for complying with all local laws pertaining to the possession and use of this product.

 

[JackStraw.308]

Hmmm.... I don't see how locking knives can be illegal. That site is very legaly minded and it has a ton of locking knives. Or do you mean you can't carry locking knives in public? I'll check out that pen knife

Yeh, I'm pretty sure I'd just run away if someone attacked me, I really don't see myself using a knife on someone unless I really had to, but I'd feel...more confortable with one.

Edit: Ok, I checked and although I can't find where the law says it, but it seems locking blades can't be carried without a good reason. So I'll try that pen knife, thanks for your help. If it dosn't lock, would it still be safe (for me) to...stab with it? :/

One more thing, is a machete any use whatsoever for self defence? I just see them in shops and think... I would not like to be on the recieving end of that... but then msot everything you assume about knives is incorrect in my experience

 

[tnozh]

So, I'd like a knife to carry with me for self defence purposes. In the UK, we can carry knives in public provided they can fold and they have a blade shorter than 3" (we can carry any knife, but you need a 'good reason' for that, like being a rock climber or a hunter)

Are you *really* sure about the legality of carrying a knife?

and take a look at the rest of the article here .

Good luck & cheers anyway!

 

[JackStraw.308]

Well, you CAN carry pen knives. However, if the police believe you are carrying them for violent purposes, then you can go to prison. I dunno, if you searched me randomly (I don't do anything illegal and have no intention of doing so) and found that knife on me, would you think I was a dangerous criminal or just a guy with a tool?

 

[tnozh]

Well, you CAN carry pen knives. However, if the police believe you are carrying them for violent purposes, then you can go to prison. I dunno, if you searched me randomly (I don't do anything illegal and have no intention of doing so) and found that knife on me, would you think I was a dangerous criminal or just a guy with a tool?

well, *I* would not think anything bad about you. but what about the local cops?! here were I live, in Florida, the issue is essentially decided by cops and prosecutors and, eventually, by juries. that's *very* depressing but that's the sad reality. also, we are just talking about *carrying* here - NOT using. if you use a knife in self-defense, well either you fail and in this case you have achieved nothing, or you succeed and you are in heaps of trouble. they will call your self-defense "aggravated assault with a deadly and illegally carried weapon" and argue pre-meditation (you did have the knife with you, did you not). frankly, I do carry a small EDC, but I would never use it in self-defense in my corner of the world - I would use my head to stay well clear of dangerous situations and then, as a poster suggested here, I would use my legs to run as fast as I can and, if cornered, my fists to fight. not heroic, not glamourous, but I have no desire to spend the rest of my life in prison.

now, if my family is attacked, all bets are off...

 

[jackknife]

I don't know how old you are or you demographics, but in the U.K. where any knife can get you in real trouble I don't think I'd carry more than the UK penknife. For self defence how about an impact weapon of some sort that is innocent in appearence?

First, a blow from a impact tool is way more effective with imediate trauma to nerves and broken bones. A common blackthorn stick would provide reach over a knife as well as a tool to block with. They have'nt outlawed canes over there yet have they?

 

[Kohai999]

No sticks or clubs, unless you medically need one.

Read that link, Jack Straw. It gives VERY, VERY good advice. Take some martial arts, there are some excellent dojos in the UK. Carry a flashlight.

Don't even think about a knife for self defense, you will wind up in goal for sure.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[jackknife]

Yeah man,

think Maglight.

D cell maglight.

(And go to a doc and complain about that arthritus in your foot. Your visit will be on record and then carry the blackthorn.)

 

[Ren the devils trailboss]

I would suggest a Perrin Lagriffe..or a Spyderco Spot..( patterned after Lagriffe) they are small, simple, unobtrusive, and not very scary for sheeple but in a pinch would really kick some butt!!


pic is from bladeart.com where this one is for sale...

 

[thombrogan]

A walking stick or cane can be a wonderful thing, as can a maglite. Raghorn's EDC is your best bet.

 

[bquinlan]

If it dosn't lock, would it still be safe (for me) to...stab with it? :/

You are wise to worry about stabbing with a non-locking knife. The choil on the Spyderco is designed to provide some protection against unintentional closing, but not enough to keep you safe when a lot of force is involved. Having your fingers merely broken instead of severed is an improvement, but only so much...

There is no agreement on whether stabbing or slashing is the more effective defensive technique, but if your only weapon is a non-locking folder you're probably best off training to slash. Look into styles that work with the resources you have.

I don't know very much about knife laws in the UK, but over here it is not uncommon to find knives sold in stores that are illegal to carry in public, even if they are legal to own. That would probably apply to machetes too.

--Bob Q

 

[Thomas Linton]

Not even canes!!!

At least ladies could carry some "spare" coins in a pouch-type purse. (Here, I have exact CHANGE! )


3D maglite. Shine it in his eyes, then cosh 'im. But you'll need to practice/train to use the baton (opps, flashlight) as a defensive weapon -- not that it's a weapon, you understand.

Your laws are designed to make you unarmed prey for the thugs. Thugs so like unarmed victims. Hopefully, some day UK voters will rise up and throw the buggers out of office. After all, you did for Charlie I. Until then, Maglite 3D.

(Oh, and paint it some color other than black -- too "tactical.")

 

[Psychopomp]

(Oh, and paint it some color other than black -- too "tactical.")

My trusty silver 4D Mag could do some damage. But really, a D-cell light is too big for practical every day carry (even a 2D Mag is too big, I keep a 4D with my camping/hiking gear and a 3D in my car, but that's for lighting purposes only). If you really want to blind someone, get a Surefire.

My combination of Surefire to the eyes and Bates Enforcers to the groin would handle most attackers.

But in all honesty, a flashlight isn't a self defense tool, and most knives aren't either. If you want a knife for self defense, get a Ka-Bar or something big like that.

No matter how well you know how to use your knife, chances are better than not that it'll get used on you instead of your attacker. They have the element of surprise working for them. You have to first find the knife, get it out of a pocket and open it. Even if it only takes you a second to do all of that under normal circumstances, you can't always expect your attacker to play along and give you time to react and arm yourself.

If you're really worried about being attacked, learn some hand to hand combat, don't rely on a knife.

And the most important self defense tool... be smart. Don't go somewhere dangerous at night, and don't go somewhere you've never been before. Know where you are and where you're going, so that if you do get mugged, you know how and where to escape.

 

[Will]

I think there are better self-defence weapons than knives, unless you are skilled at fighting with them, which if you were, you would be able to select one without asking for advice here. If you are getting mugged, you are far better off giving up your wallet than you are engaging in a knife fight. Whether you win or lose you are likely to sustain trauma, even if not physically harmed. Are you prepared to stab someone to death for trying to rob you?

If you attacker is actually trying ot kill you, he is unlikely to hesitate. He will probably stab you before you realize what is going on and have a change to deploy your weapon. Usually muggers are trying to scare you and have no intention of killing you. Coperate and you will live. Start to pull out a knife and suddenly they will feel their life is in danger and will do anything they can to defend themselves from you. Since their blade is out, and yours isn't yet, you are in trouble. (When you are faced by a possible killer and are shaking in your boots with fear, pulling a folding knife out, and trying to open it won't be as easy as it is when you practivce at home. You fine motor skills will be comprimized.) It is also really easy to hurt yourself with the knife if your hand slips. Don't escalate the level of violence if you can avoid it. Run away, or jsut give up your money.

If you must arm yourself, the tazer or pepper spray you suggested are better choices. They won't traumatize you to use the way a knife would. (If stabbing someone with a knife won't traumatize you, you probably need to seek help.) Also, should your weapon be used against you, it is non lethal. This is probably a good thing too when using it against your attacker. There are far more serious concequences to killing someone.

Impact weapons are great, like expandable batons, but I assume those are illegal. The Flashlights or walking stick mentioned above are good choices. Even a carabiner makes a great brass knuckle. These days they are commonly used as keychains, and won't draw any attention as a weapon. Ther are many things you can use as a weapon of opportunity, and unless you are highly skilled and physically fit, knives are not the best choice. Besides, we are all sick of how sheeple keep labeling our tools as lethal weapons. Why give them a reason?

...Just my views on the subject...

Will

 

[bones57]

It never fails to anger me when i hear of all the restrictions that an honest law abiding citizen must go through just to be able to walk safely on the streets and be able to defend himself if the need arises.
Will we ever see the day when we start executing all the scum that go and take lives on a whim ? Will we ever see the day when a criminal thinks that if he pulls that trigger or uses that knife or rapes a woman that he will be put to death himself and not in 10 or 20 years but immeadiately after trial without 500 appeals ??
Personally i would like to see 500 executions a day till the jails are empty of these cold blooded filthy scumbags, then we might see how quick they are to play wanna be tough guy.
I doubt we will ever see that day but its nice to think about. China sets a good example, take em out and blow their brains out publicly and thats that.

Im sorry to take the thread off course but im just letting off steam and im sick to death of seing people victimized because of gutless judges , politicians and putrid filthy low life scummy lawyers.
If anyone knew my background they would be pretty shocked to hear this coming from me, but as you get older you see things differently i guess.

 

[Thirteenth Star]

Even pepper spray is illegal in the UK?

 

[maximus otter]

I don't see how locking knives can be illegal. That site is very legaly minded and it has a ton of locking knives. Or do you mean you can't carry locking knives in public?

Recently-retired UK police officer here.

Just because BKCG sells it, don't imagine that it's legal for EDC (Every Day Carry).

Although no cases have come to court yet, I believe that all the Kershaws you list would all be classified in the UK as autos ("Flick knives"). The legal definition is: "Any knife which has a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button , spring or other device in or attached to the handle."

You may only carry in public places as a matter of routine (Every Day Carry) a slip-joint folder with a blade which has a sharpened edge less than 76.2mm (3 inches) long. A slip-joint folder is the type of penknife we all think of as typical, e.g. a Swiss Army Knife as made by Victorinox or Wenger. The new Spyderco UK Penknife was designed to comply with UK law.

If the blade can be locked open, the knife is illegal for EDC no matter how long or short the blade is. This includes Opinels with their twist-ring lock, multitools such as the Leatherman Wave or Gerber 600, Stanley knives (“box cutters”) etc. The case law which established this is Harris v. the DPP.

If you have a good, current and valid reason, you may have in your possession any appropriate type of knife. Examples would include a ghillie on a Scottish shooting estate with a skinning knife, a carpet fitter on his way to work with his tools including a Stanley knife, a chef at a hog roast at a country fair with his 9” carving knife etc. Here is what the law states:

“4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—
(a) for use at work;
(b) for religious reasons; or
(c) as part of any national costume.”

Note: “Good reason” is not defined. Lawful authority in the case of offensive weapons includes police officers carrying PR24 or ASP as part of their duty, for example. As in all cases, do not even think of trying to work out some way round the law. (“I’m a Jedi and our religion commands me to carry a bayonet,” or, “I’m a Gurkha, constable, hence the kukri.”) You will lose…

As to carrying a knife for self-defence in the UK: Don't even think about it.

maximus otter

 

[JackStraw.308]

Ok, a maglite sounds good. What size would be good? Something that will fit in a large pocket but still have a reasonable reach.
Also, I'd still like either a machete or a knife for the home. Partly for self defence in a pinch but mostly for utility purposes (carving wood, cutting packaging, weeds, releasing my frustration on the tangle of electrical wires behind the TV and so on). Those Kershaw ones are very highly spoken of and the opening action looks like great fun..would one of them be suitable? And would I be better off hitting someone with a maglite or slashing them with a machete?

I was in the army a few years back and I was quite prepared to stab and shoot and explode anyone if the need arose... I just hope that is still the case if I were attacked.

However, as I said I really doubt I'd ever attack an attacker unless it was really nescessary. If I was with my fiancee and we were attacked then I'm sorry to say I'd murder the f***er, regardless. I wouldn't feel good about it, I'd be ashamed and probably terribly sorry but that is just what would happen. I'm not hugely concerned about defending myself, I feel perfectly safe during the day and at home. The only time I ever don't feel safe is walking home alone in the evening which isn't very often.

I do see the point of all these laws, and some of them are very sensible. But I also see how they are aweful. As it is, if they find you with a butterfly knife or a switchblade or whatever, you're obviously a criminal and can be arrested, so preventing them from attacking anyone. However, on the downside honest people like myself cannot defend ourselves from the ones that don't get caught.
Anyway, thanks for all your help so far, you've been very helpful

EDIT: Thanks maximus, I do definitely want to stay within the law so carrying a knife is out. I know self defence is very frowned upon in the UK but I'm sure you can understand my concern.