Self defense with a pocket knife in Florida

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Jul 20, 2013
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Hello BladeForums! First off, thanks for taking the time to read this.

I'm currently 18 years old and I've been wondering about how to go about self-defense here in Florida.

Florida as many of you may know, has very lax pocket knife laws, so I'm legally allowed to carry just about any folding pocket knife on my person even without a weapons' permit.

I don't have any concealed weapons permits of any kind, but on weekends I have to park off property at my job about a 10 minute walk away, which is down some dark shady streets at like 11:00PM and sometimes as late as 1:00AM in the morning.
I was wondering what the procedure for self defense would be in such a situation if I were robbed or just plain assaulted. I always carry my Spydero Endura on me with a ziptie mod for quick deployment.
I would assume that if someone tries to rob me on the way back to my car that I should just give them my money and not worry about self defense, correct? Could I somehow get in any trouble with the law if I felt my life were
in danger and stabbed someone who was trying to assault me? God forbid that I'd ever have to do something like that, but would a judge find me guilty of carrying a concealed weapon without a concealed permit even though
it's only a pocket knife since I'd be using it as a defensive weapon?

Like I said, God forbid if I ever had to seriously injure or even take someone's life. I'd never even consider such an act unless my life or another victim's life were in danger. I can only imagine how I'd feel after killing another
human being.

Thanks again for reading and for any input you have.
 
Your question falls into the general legal topic of self-defense rather than knife law, per se. No jurisdiction actually has statutory laws on using a knife vs using something else in self-defense. Self-defense is determined by looking at the whole picture of a specific situation. And crime does not play out how we often fantasize or see on TV.

There are cases (that is, prior court decisions) from around the US that go either way but illustrate some important points. The first is that generally speaking, a knife is deadly force only. If a knife is used in any circumstance where your are not in immediate possibility of dying or being permanently maimed, it is excessive force. This means that under most circumstances where an attacker is unarmed, you can easily be convicted of murder or aggravated assault if you defend yourself with a knife, particularly if the court feels you had an adequate avenue of escape and chose to use the knife instead out of bravado or anger. I have only read two cases where a knife was used justfiably on an unarmed attacker, and in both cases the defender was on his back with the attacker over them punching or trying to choke. It is worth noting that in both cases, the knew each other, rather than a random attack/robbery of a stranger. Other than these two cases, there are scores of other cases where it was ruled excessive force and the defender got jail time for murder 2.

If the attacker also has a knife, 90% if you two go at it you will both end up dead or clinging to life. I have only seen one case like this that turned out even remotely well, and it was in Canada. The attacker mistook the defender for someone else and attacked him with a knife. The defender shoved him backwards (a "panic push" often taught in law enforcement and CHP training), got his own knife out, and they both exchanged multiple stabs. The attacker died, the defender just barely lived thanks to emergency surgery, and was found not-guilty by a court because he did not use his knife until he saw he was being attacked with a deadly weapon.

I generally consider a pocket knife a schmuck's self-defense weapon, because of it's limitations, and the fact that it's usually not very effective at stopping the attack (they don't go down right away). It can be used to scare, of course, but that doesn't always work. Pepper spray is generally a better option because courts view it as a non-lethal weapon and so it can be used in less deadly situations than a knife with fewer repercussions, even against a person wielding their own knife.
 
Your question falls into the general legal topic of self-defense rather than knife law, per se. No jurisdiction actually has statutory laws on using a knife vs using something else in self-defense. Self-defense is determined by looking at the whole picture of a specific situation. And crime does not play out how we often fantasize or see on TV.

There are cases (that is, prior court decisions) from around the US that go either way but illustrate some important points. The first is that generally speaking, a knife is deadly force only. If a knife is used in any circumstance where your are not in immediate possibility of dying or being permanently maimed, it is excessive force. This means that under most circumstances where an attacker is unarmed, you can easily be convicted of murder or aggravated assault if you defend yourself with a knife, particularly if the court feels you had an adequate avenue of escape and chose to use the knife instead out of bravado or anger. I have only read two cases where a knife was used justfiably on an unarmed attacker, and in both cases the defender was on his back with the attacker over them punching or trying to choke. It is worth noting that in both cases, the knew each other, rather than a random attack/robbery of a stranger. Other than these two cases, there are scores of other cases where it was ruled excessive force and the defender got jail time for murder 2.

If the attacker also has a knife, 90% if you two go at it you will both end up dead or clinging to life. I have only seen one case like this that turned out even remotely well, and it was in Canada. The attacker mistook the defender for someone else and attacked him with a knife. The defender shoved him backwards (a "panic push" often taught in law enforcement and CHP training), got his own knife out, and they both exchanged multiple stabs. The attacker died, the defender just barely lived thanks to emergency surgery, and was found not-guilty by a court because he did not use his knife until he saw he was being attacked with a deadly weapon.

I generally consider a pocket knife a schmuck's self-defense weapon, because of it's limitations, and the fact that it's usually not very effective at stopping the attack (they don't go down right away). It can be used to scare, of course, but that doesn't always work. Pepper spray is generally a better option because courts view it as a non-lethal weapon and so it can be used in less deadly situations than a knife with fewer repercussions, even against a person wielding their own knife.

Thanks for the advice, I just ordered some pepper spray for my key chain.
 
Couldn't have said it better, Almost all cases of knives being used in self defense turn out bad, even if you come out unscathed, the law is gonna come and bite ya' in the ass :D
 
Couldn't have said it better, Almost all cases of knives being used in self defense turn out bad, even if you come out unscathed, the law is gonna come and bite ya' in the ass :D
Do you have any source of information on which to base that statement? I'm curious how you know what happens in "Almost all cases", and how often people are prosecuted for using a knife for self-defense.
 
Could you give some more info? Why are you having to park at such a distance from your place of employment? I would also say to go ahead and get you concealed weapons permit, no reason not to.
 
Could you give some more info? Why are you having to park at such a distance from your place of employment? I would also say to go ahead and get you concealed weapons permit, no reason not to.

Yeah far better off with a revolver and a permit.
 
I don't know if Glistam was referring to these incidents (I'm sure there are many), but here are two incidents where people used knives to defend themselves against unarmed attackers. There's no mention as to whether or not any criminal charges were filed against the defenders, but I doubt it.

http://www.krem.com/news/crime/Three-people-stabbed-in-North-S-112404894.html

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/DNA-links-suspect-to-attempted-rape-near-UK-campus-182164671.html

I would strongly suggest that any person interested in self-defense seek out qualified instruction in the subject of self-defense. As well as qualified instruction in the use of whatever item they are considering carrying for self-defense.

Any item carried for self-defense has it's limitations. I know several cops personally, and while they say that pepper spray can be effective in some situations, it can also fail miserably to stop or even deter an attacker. Nothing offers 100% effectiveness. I've heard cops tell many stories of pepper spray failing to be effective against violent, determined, mentally ill, and/or drugged-out individuals.

It should also be noted that the use of pepper spray does not provide the user with any immunity from prosecution. If a prosecutor decides that your use of pepper spray was not justified, you might very well find yourself facing some form of assault charges. Pepper spray is not harmless and can cause respiratory problems. It has also been known to cause death in at least one case I know of.

Whether or not knives are a good choice for self-defense can be debated, but I know of at least two police departments that include the use of knives for self-defense in their formal training (Hialeah, FL. and Ontario CA). In the case of the Ontario police department, I know that at one time they issued knives to each of their officers, in part specifically for self-defense.

Interested persons can read about those departments in these articles-

http://www.policemag.com/channel/weapons/articles/2002/10/on-the-cutting-edge.aspx

http:www.lawenforcementtoday.com/2012/02/09/law-enforcement-and-knives/

Like I said before (because it cannot be said enough), seek out qualified instruction. Perhaps there are law enforcement personnel offering self-defense classes in your area who can discuss in detail the pros and cons of various self-defense items. As well as discuss several other extremely important issues involved in self-defense.
 
Ok shoulda read it my bad. Carry a dummy wallet.
If I was a thief I would do a quick check to see if there is cash in the wallet, if I saw an empty wallet, you're not gonna know what hit you...
Here is my advice, this is what I do on a daily basis:
I carry 2 wallets, one is my real wallet with all my cards and other important things, the other one is a "Mug" wallet, this wallet contains nothing but cash and some useless business cards, I have at least 40 dollars in it and it stays in my right back pocket.
I do have a knife that could be used for self defense, but I regard it as a last-ditch knife where it is my one and only option. If I was at gunpoint, which is highly likely, I would not try to pull out a blade to attack, unless, that is, you are Lee...
[video=youtube;LL6x8Xh7LMc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL6x8Xh7LMc[/video]
All jokes aside, just look at things from a realistic point of view, don't try to plan anything stupid and pull a joke on a criminal, that's your one-way ticket to the morgue.
 
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If I was a thief I would do a quick check to see if there is cash in the wallet, if I saw an empty wallet, you're not gonna know what hit you...
Here is my advice, this is what I do on a daily basis:
I carry 2 wallets, one is my real wallet with all my cards and other important things, the other one is a "Mug" wallet, this wallet contains nothing but cash and some useless business cards, I have at least 40 dollars in it and it stays in my right back pocket.

I do have a knife that could be used for self defense, but I regard it as a last-ditch knife where it is my one and only option. If I was at gunpoint, which is highly likely, I would not try to pull out a blade to attack, unless, that is, you are Lee...
[video=youtube;LL6x8Xh7LMc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL6x8Xh7LMc[/video]
All jokes aside, just look at things from a realistic point of view, don't try to plan anything stupid and pull a joke on a criminal, that's your one-way ticket to the morgue.
I hear cold steel is coming out with trainer wallets made of rubber. A good soldier is always prepared.
 
I hear cold steel is coming out with trainer wallets made of rubber. A good soldier is always prepared.
I've been having a few drinks tonight and when I saw your post I actually tried searching for a Cold Steel rubbber training wallet. Good job man, you got me good.
 
I've been having a few drinks tonight and when I saw your post I actually tried searching for a Cold Steel rubbber training wallet. Good job man, you got me good.

Right on. I've had more than a few haha.
 
Florida as many of you may know, has very lax pocket knife laws, so I'm legally allowed to carry just about any folding pocket knife on my person even without a weapons' permit.

I'd be careful if I were you, everything I've read actually makes it seem like luck of the draw with knife laws in Florida. Granted you can legally own almost any knife (the exception being a "ballistic knife") but you can only carry a knife that is described as a "common pocket knife." The lack of a proper description and size specification has always made me leery of carrying large folders here. If you go on a case by case bases there have been people found innocent when carrying a 4" folder and people found guilty when carrying a folder less than 4". It all seems to come down to the judge you get (or jury if it goes to that) regarding legality so I would be very careful if I were you, younger people tend to get searched more than older folks. Also if you are down south I read that assisted openers are illegal in Miami-Dade County. I asked a cop once and he said 3" is fine.

Honestly as a life long Floridian if you're worried about self defense hit the gym and take a self defense class. And if you really want, get a gun. A lot of people down here pack (both legally and illegally) Florida is a very pro gun state, so that knife will more than likely get you killed if you pull it on the wrong person. If you're out numbered just run, no shame in it and if you're not comfortable with your ability to fight off a single unarmed person I would also recommend just high tailing it out of there, no shame in it all.

**Edit: I probably should clarify that you can open carry anything. If its fully visible clipped to your belt or something than I believe it is legal to carry almost any size knife, but I still wouldn't do it with full auto's. The ballistic knives are still 100% illegal.
 
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I'd be careful if I were you, everything I've read actually makes it seem like luck of the draw with knife laws in Florida. Granted you can legally own almost any knife (the exception being a "ballistic knife") but you can only carry a knife that is described as a "common pocket knife." The lack of a proper description and size specification has always made me leery of carrying large folders here. If you go on a case by case bases there have been people found innocent when carrying a 4" folder and people found guilty when carrying a folder less than 4". It all seems to come down to the judge you get (or jury if it goes to that) regarding legality so I would be very careful if I were you, younger people tend to get searched more than older folks. Also if you are down south I read that assisted openers are illegal in Miami-Dade County. I asked a cop once and he said 3" is fine.

Honestly as a life long Floridian if you're worried about self defense hit the gym and take a self defense class. And if you really want, get a gun. A lot of people down here pack (both legally and illegally) Florida is a very pro gun state, so that knife will more than likely get you killed if you pull it on the wrong person. If you're out numbered just run, no shame in it and if you're not comfortable with your ability to fight off a single unarmed person I would also recommend just high tailing it out of there, no shame in it all.

**Edit: I probably should clarify that you can open carry anything. If its fully visible clipped to your belt or something than I believe it is legal to carry almost any size knife, but I still wouldn't do it with full auto's. The ballistic knives are still 100% illegal.
This is how you know people don't read the post. He is 18... Good advice though, but not applicable to OP's situation, gun-wise that is.
 
When I travel out of my "comfort zone," I put about $20 cash in my front pocket so that if I'm robbed, I can just give him the money and be done with it. To me, it's worth $20 not to be shot or stabbed, and for me not to have to hurt anyone.

Also, understand that using a knife for self defense should be a last resort... and I mean last resort as in, only use it if you don't have a gun or a baseball bat or pepper spray or any number of other weapons.

Why? Because if you use the knife, you will most definitely cut yourself in the process. Add that to the fact that you are going to be slicing open some unknown person who may or may not have an incurable disease that you have now contracted. I know, I know, everyone thinks they're a knife pro, or ninja, but trust me on this: I've seen enough stabbings, and in almost every case, the person doing the stabbing has cut themselves in the process.

I worked a case a year or so ago where a woman walked into her home and discovered a man hiding behind her door. He attacked her, and had her in some type of rear choke hold. In a panic, she did the only think she thought reasonable: she pulled her pocket knife out of her pocket, and began thrusting it toward the attacker's face directly behind her head. She cut him real good, but somehow during the process she managed to slice her own neck from ear to throat. She barely lived.

Like someone else said, robbery and assault scenarios are dynamic and adrenaline filled; there is virtually no way to control them. If all you have is a knife, then go ahead and use it... but I say plan ahead and either get a proper self defense weapon, or have some extra cash in your pocket to give away in a robbery.

Edit to add: To reiterate what another member said, do not use a knife for defense unless it is a bona fide, 100% deadly force situation. That means that you believe that you either have to use the knife, or die. If you don't truly believe that you are about to be killed or SERIOUSLY* injured, do not use a deadly weapon** for self defense.

*Seriously injured does NOT mean bruising, scrapes, minor cuts, fat lips, sprained ankles, etc. Trust me on this, I've seen enough cases where someone gets punched in the face and then pulls out a gun and shoots the guy claiming "self defense," and guess what, it never works.

**A deadly weapon is any weapon that could cause serious injury or death to another person. Less lethal options available are pepper spray and tasers, and probably others that I'm not thinking of.
 
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Id go with a fully serrated Vaquero Grande or a fully serrated X2 voyager. I have explained why in another thread. Whatever happens good luck.
 
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