Selfbow experiment

[halo2]

I'm continuing my experiment with the goal of killing small game with a selfbow and primitive arrows. I built two arrows in this thread.

I got to work more on the bow this weekend. The bow started as a maple sapling about 2" in diameter. I cut it down to a stave and trimmed it with stone tools. That was good, but i made me realize that it was far too slow, so I switched to a hatchet, a mora and a Hultafors GK as those were handy.

I used the hatchet to hack the stave in half, trying to get the D shape that I've seen in my research. That took about an hour. I should mention that I did not debark the staff. I wonder how that will affect the bow.

Then I started whittling with the knives. After quite a pile of shavings, it was ready (in my mind) for a first stringing. I used paracord. I may end up making a sisal or milkweed string as time permits but I hope to hunt with it this weekend if all works out and I don't break it.

As you can see, it still needs work. The left side is stiff so I'll be shaving it down a bit. I'm looking for more of a gradual D shape and I want a draw length of at least 24" I'm a little concerned that it won't have a decent draw weight. Looks like around 30-35 pounds, which is OK.

Another thing to note that was a good lesson for me is that the staff is full of knots. I figured in a survival situation use what is on hand, but if I took the time to pick a knotless staff of either oak or hickory, common here, I'd be better off for the same amount of work.

Here are some pictures. Any advice from those real bowyers out there?

 

[Barbarossa]

Nice keep up the good work. Thanks for sharing

 

[sicily02]

Awesome, I look forward to seeing it all done.

Great job,

Bryan

 

[halo2]

Thanks. Any tips?

 

[sambo.]

well done sir.

how does she shoot?

 

[halo2]

well done sir.

how does she shoot?

i don't know yet. bu I'll post when do

 

[Md 25v]

Looks like you have a good start.
I have a few tips.
First, de-bark the stave. Leaving the transitional cambium layer attached will slow down the action of the bow. Leaving the extra weight of the bark attached will slow it down even further. Weight isn't everything. Speed is just as important. Although you may lose a pound or three by removing the bark you will actually gain some speed in the arrow. If you decide to remove the bark be sure not to damage the growth rings of the stave. Also, the bark removal will help the stave to dry quicker and more evenly.

Second, use a better string. Paracord stretches and is one of the worst materials for a bowstring. The stretch comes from the sheath. By removing the sheath and using just the inner strands you can eliminate most of the stretch and still have enough strength to make a bowstring by braiding, twining, or making a flemish twist.

Third, please don't waste your time making a bowstring out of sisal or milkweed. Both of those are FAR to weak to be used as a bowstring. Very few plant fibers are strong enough to be use as bowstrings. Most "primitive" bowstrings were made of animal parts. Split hide, sinews, gut cord, and plant fibers. The latter was used by the fewest groups. Yucca and dogbane make suitable bowstrings if processed properly. If you want to make an authentic looking bowstring without the effort of gathering and processing then try hemp string from a craft store or walmart. It is stronger than any natural fiber you will find locally and is good for practicing making whatever type of bowstring you prefer.

If you make a shelf for the arrow then an easy way to make a nock is to make a mark on the string with a sharpie and then tie a single overhand knot at the mark. The knot will now act as your nock. Be aware that this only works if your string is strong enough because the knot will reduce the total strength of your string by appx 50%.

In the second picture, your tiller isn't even. You have a thin spot near the handle and then a lot of thickness half way to the tip. The goal (MUCH EASIER SAID THAN DONE) is to have the limb flex evenly from handle to tip.

When tillering, remember that half the materials thickness taken from the belly will cut the bows draw weight in half but removing only one quarter of the material thickness from the sides of the bow will cut the draw weight by half. If you want to strengthen your bow after material is removed you can back the bow. Its more intensive than it sounds so I won't bother posting about it but you can PM me if you're interested.

Good luck

 

[chopchop]

Another thing to note that was a good lesson for me is that the staff is full of knots. I figured in a survival situation use what is on hand, but if I took the time to pick a knotless staff of either oak or hickory, common here, I'd be better off for the same amount of work.

I've read that osage orange / hedge trees make great bows.

 

[Md 25v]

I've read that osage orange / hedge trees make great bows.

Osage is great but not for the beginner. It will make a faster bow than any other wood but it is the hardest to work and get an even tiller and if you make any mistakes with Osage it is also more likely to break than other woods the first time you draw it back.

 

[chopchop]

Osage is great but not for the beginner. It will make a faster bow than any other wood but it is the hardest to work and get an even tiller and if you make any mistakes with Osage it is also more likely to break than other woods the first time you draw it back.

It's always good to get the experienced perspective on what I read. Thanks Md!

We have a ton of hedge trees in my part of the world. I really like the wood & was interested to read that it had been used as bow stock. I figured there had to be a trick (aka skill) to make it work.

 

[sambo.]

nice post Md_25v. sounds like you've made a few bows in your time.

gogo halo2! i really want to find out how this thing shoots!

 

[Briarbrow]

I didnt think to much about leaving the bark on affecting the cast. I have a 2 inch approx dogwood that has been laying around and was going to leave the bark. The thing that's slowed me down is the small diameter. I've never made a bow from such a small tree. and it will need to be jointed in the middle to get the length.

imho you've gone too far with green wood. Unless it isnt green, I think that will effect your cast more than anything. It's ok to work it to rough size green; just dont bend it or tiller too much. Dont work it beyond it's final draw weight. And with 2 inch maple you likely want to keep it as wide as possible. Good luck with it.

 

[Todd Robbins]

The Traditional Bowyer's Bible series of books is an encyclopedia of knowledge about making primitive bows, arrows, and broadheads. It runs the gamut from wood selection, to bow design and construction, to making arrows from start to finish, to making broadheads. If you get really into it, Primitive Archer magazine sometimes has some good stuff in it. This months issue of Backwoodsman magazine has an article with detailed instructions for building a selfbow.

As was mentioned before, you really need to start with wood that has the right moisture content. Too dry and it will be too brittle and might break. Too green and it will take more set and have slower cast. Around 9 or 10 percent seems to work the best. To mimic a true survival situation, I'd look for a hardwood that was at least 5' 6" long or longer that was knot and twist free and dried to equilibrium with the local environment.

Todd

edited to add: Primitive Archer's website has a bowbuilding forum that is full of information from a really helpful group of guys.

 

[sadiejane]

this is one of the best video series ive watched so far on bow making. he is using osage orange but the techniques apply to many woods. 14 parts so it takes some time to watch but you really get the details needed to be successful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2N1cT1tKmM&feature=related

recently picked up a great book too
"bows and arrows of the native americans"
by jim hamm
highly recommend if you're serious about making hunting bows
now its got me started making arrows.
found a small grove of dogwood saplings
got em debarked, straightened and drying
there are lots of other good sources out there
the like bowyers bible series
good luck and have fun!

 

[Md 25v]

If you are hunting then you should consider making string silencers as well. Quieting the string can add distance to your shot. If a squirrel hears a loud "twang" and it is already watching you it might jump out of the way. With simple string silencers you can cut most of the sound out of your shot. If you get a squirrel with your bow, consider making a set out of his tail. Here is a set that I made yesterday, works very well.

 

[halo2]

Looks like you have a good start.
I have a few tips.
First, de-bark the stave. Leaving the transitional cambium layer attached will slow down the action of the bow. Leaving the extra weight of the bark attached will slow it down even further. Weight isn't everything. Speed is just as important. Although you may lose a pound or three by removing the bark you will actually gain some speed in the arrow. If you decide to remove the bark be sure not to damage the growth rings of the stave. Also, the bark removal will help the stave to dry quicker and more evenly.

Good tip. I'm kind of spooked to debark it now. I know I should have, but I don't want to violate the rings. I'd be nice to do so though.

Second, use a better string. Paracord stretches and is one of the worst materials for a bowstring. The stretch comes from the sheath. By removing the sheath and using just the inner strands you can eliminate most of the stretch and still have enough strength to make a bowstring by braiding, twining, or making a flemish twist.

Yeah, the paracord was supposed to be temporary. I'd like to do a squirrel hide string if I find a roadkill. I hve some B-50 that I could use too. This is as much a survival bow experiment as a bowmaking experiment.

Third, please don't waste your time making a bowstring out of sisal or milkweed. Both of those are FAR to weak to be used as a bowstring. Very few plant fibers are strong enough to be use as bowstrings. Most "primitive" bowstrings were made of animal parts. Split hide, sinews, gut cord, and plant fibers. The latter was used by the fewest groups. Yucca and dogbane make suitable bowstrings if processed properly. If you want to make an authentic looking bowstring without the effort of gathering and processing then try hemp string from a craft store or walmart. It is stronger than any natural fiber you will find locally and is good for practicing making whatever type of bowstring you prefer.

hmmm. TBB II lists milkweed as a "good" bow string material. Have you done your own? I'd be curious to hear different results. I have a slew of milkweed and I flemish twisted a 6" hank that seemed OK. It was about 1/8" diameter. We'll see. I have not had good luck with Walmart hemp.

In the second picture, your tiller isn't even. You have a thin spot near the handle and then a lot of thickness half way to the tip. The goal (MUCH EASIER SAID THAN DONE) is to have the limb flex evenly from handle to tip.

Yes, my tillering sucks. I'm working on it, giving more mass around the knots.

When tillering, remember that half the materials thickness taken from the belly will cut the bows draw weight in half but removing only one quarter of the material thickness from the sides of the bow will cut the draw weight by half. If you want to strengthen your bow after material is removed you can back the bow. Its more intensive than it sounds so I won't bother posting about it but you can PM me if you're interested.

Good luck

Thanks

 

[Md 25v]

Good tip. I'm kind of spooked to debark it now. I know I should have, but I don't want to violate the rings. I'd be nice to do so though.

You have to learn sometime. Better on the bow you don't plan on keeping than the one you do.

Yeah, the paracord was supposed to be temporary. I'd like to do a squirrel hide string if I find a roadkill. I hve some B-50 that I could use too. This is as much a survival bow experiment as a bowmaking experiment.

Road kill usually won't work unless you get it immediately because it all starts to break down, deer is very good. Also Roadkill that has been frozen will not work because the hide will tear under tension. Squirrel hide will work but only for a light bow, nothing over 35lbs. Otherwise, the thickness of the squirrel hided needed to handle the draw would be more than a nock could accommodate. The best way to get a long string out of a squirrel is to case skin it first and then spiral cut the skin with scisors

hmmm. TBB II lists milkweed as a "good" bow string material. Have you done your own? I'd be curious to hear different results. I have a slew of milkweed and I flemish twisted a 6" hank that seemed OK. It was about 1/8" diameter. We'll see. I have not had good luck with Walmart hemp.

I love the TBB and really hate to disagree with anything in it. I've made a few from milkweed and its not nearly as strong as Yucca or animal strings. I belong to the M.A.P.S. group (mid atlantic primitive skills group) and have seen quite a few bowstrings made from milkweed over the years. They all have the same problem. When milkweed cordage dries to much it becomes brittle. Loosing flexibility isn't that big a deal since a bowstring doesn't bend all that much but the problem is that the splices break, strand by strand, until your string snaps at the end of the shot. I've actually asked a few of the real old timers at MAPS and have yet to see a good example of a Milkweed bowstring that will last more than thirty-forty shots at full draw.

Yes, my tillering sucks. I'm working on it, giving more mass around the knots.

Keep up on the tillering. It is by far the most important thing to "get right" on a bow



Good luck with the bow. I love both traditional and primitive archery and am happy to see so many people on this forum interested in it. I'm half way through a new design of 100% primitive "stump" arrows for small game hunting with a heavier bow. I'm going crow hunting on Thursday and if I get enough big ones I'll fletch the arrows I have made up.

P.S. just finished this string a few minutes ago. Tighter than I usually like but the extra twists were needed to make the brace height 5.5 inches (correct height for the bow).

Here is the deer hide handle, tied with artificial sinew, and decorated with a carved bone feather. The arrow rest is a round cut deer leg bone.

 

[halo2]

Thanks all for the advice and well wishes with the project. I'm still tillering. Man, I can't imagine doing this with stone - but it's on the bucket list!

Briarbow - you're probably spot on. This sapling is still too green.

SJ & Todd, thanks for the references.

I strung and shot it today. New thread coming ...