Recommendation? Sharpening on the Belt Grinder

J. Keeton

J. Keeton

Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,201
This has been giving me fits. I've been trying to set my secondary bevels with my 2x42 belt grinder on the platen, tilted @ 15 degrees, blade down, running a a billion miles per hour.

  1. Does anyone know of any good video tutorials on quickly and efficiently setting secondary bevels? I'd like to learn how to do these on the belt grinder instead of my edge pro.
  2. Any good/useful belt grinding jigs for setting the edge?
    • Best I've seen so far is Nathan the Machinist's pendulum arm.
  3. What is the most aggressive stone yall use on the edge pro?
    • Sadly... I may need to suck it up and set my edges by hand due to the speed of my 2x42...
    • I've been looking at Chef Knives to Go's 140 Diamond Plate stone for the EP.

What's yall's machine first sharpening tricks/methods?

Thanks for any advise!
JK
 
I cant give you any advice on belt grinder sharpening but i can say that the cktg diamond stone is well worth it. I use it to set all my bevels and it only takes a couple minutes.
 
Stang Bladeworks said:
I cant give you any advice on belt grinder sharpening but i can say that the cktg diamond stone is well worth it. I use it to set all my bevels and it only takes a couple minutes.
Click to expand...

Thanks Stang Bladeworks Stang Bladeworks that's good to know... Probably worth the $$$ for the stone and time to step away from the Dayton speed demon.... Nothing makes me angrier in the shop than jacking up something I've worked on for days/hours in the blink of an eye.
 
J. Keeton said:
Thanks Stang Bladeworks Stang Bladeworks that's good to know... Probably worth the $$$ for the stone and time to step away from the Dayton speed demon.... Nothing makes me angrier in the shop than jacking up something I've worked on for days/hours in the blink of an eye.
Click to expand...
Yeah i dont think its worth it to save 10 or 20 minutes and risk destroying a knife. I will use a belt to set a rough bevel on a large blade but I still finish with the edge pro. I try to set a bevel that can be easily touched up on an inexpensive system by the customer. As long as i go less than 20 dps (typically 17) it can be sharpened easily on a sharpmaker, wicked edge or simillar system.
 
Best way on a grinder, get one that is variable speed. I wouldn't dare set a bevel on something i couldnt control speed on. One tiny mistake at high speed and its game over. Either ruin temper or wreck geometry too easily.

Low speed though, its painless and very forgiving.
 
I turn down the speed and do it freehand. There was a thread not long ago that had a lot of good ideas. One thing that I have been doing is soaking the belt in water with a bit of dish soap. I also have a squirt bottle next to the grinder. Anytime I worry about heat I use a wet belt. Its really helps.
 
I always create the initial cutting edge on the belt grinder but I have a 2 x 72 KMG with variable speed. I set the initial bevel at about 17 degrees on thicker blades (i.e. hunters, rather than kitchen knives which may not need an initial bevel) and then make the final cutting edge at about 22 degrees per side (44 degrees inclusive). The KMG makes this easy; I tilt the platen back at the appropriate angle and form the edge while holding the knife edge vertical. I keep the speeds low and dunk into water frequently to prevent overheating of the edge.

After initial sharpening, I'll break the wire edge on a 1800 rpm buffer, and then strop the edge on the flesh side of veg tanned leather that has been loaded with 600 chrome rubbing compound.

Sometimes, I'll follow this process up with a bunch of strokes on my Sharpmaker, if needed . . . followed by another touch on the stropping leather.

If you cannot control the belt speed and the resulting heat to the blade edge, then I wouldn't recommend sharpening on a belt grinder.

You would be better off hand sharpening or buying a complete sharpening system (i.e. expensive) with a large variety of diamond and other stones such as sharpmaker, etc., rather than sharpening on a a 2 x 42.
 
in the neilson video, does the smooth side (front) or the suede side(back) of the leather belt rub against the edge ?
 
skillgannon said:
I turn down the speed and do it freehand. There was a thread not long ago that had a lot of good ideas. One thing that I have been doing is soaking the belt in water with a bit of dish soap. I also have a squirt bottle next to the grinder. Anytime I worry about heat I use a wet belt. Its really helps.
Click to expand...
Slow speed smaller mistake you can make and I agree with that . BUT to say that on slower speed is harder to overheat edge.............is simple MYTH .I have no idea from where that come ! If you don t know what and how you a doing you can overheat two inch thick steel not edge .At least my personal experience say that as fast you run belt it faster , easier remove steel .Very light pressure and steady hand and second later you are done ! Let see , we a talking on contact surface of steel with belt so small that belt will eat that in fraction of time .I spend more time to check what I read then I make knives lately ...And lot of what I read is not what I experience ...........
 
Natlek said:
Slow speed smaller mistake you can make and I agree with that . BUT to say that on slower speed is harder to overheat edge.............is simple MYTH .I have no idea from where that come ! If you don t know what and how you a doing you can overheat two inch thick steel not edge .At least my personal experience say that as fast you run belt it faster , easier remove steel .Very light pressure and steady hand and second later you are done ! Let see , we a talking on contact surface of steel with belt so small that belt will eat that in fraction of time .I spend more time to check what I read then I make knives lately ...And lot of what I read is not what I experience ...........
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that 400 to 800 AO belts are supposed to be run at full speed. Also since I don't have a full flood wet grinding system and just lightly soak the belt and mist it with a spray bottle it is hard to keep the belt wet at full speed. If you are set up for finish grinding at high speed that's great. My advice was only for a newer maker like myself and who might be worried about burning a edge on the grinder. I have found that the ability to do some wet grinding is great even though I don't have a full wet grinding system yet.
 
Is not this thread about setting the first edge on finished knife ? You don t start to form/sharpen first edge with 400 or 800 grit ........:) 400 or higher grit are only good for final touch , for final edge/if that is your choice/ before you strop ... Look , I don t like to look like I m some smart a_ , but sharpening is not the same as you work with 800 grit for finish bevel .On bevel you MUST go slow with that belt and only reason is CONTACT surface of steel and number of grit/grain on that surface .More grain on same surface more heat ...On edge contact surface is extremely small.... BW , personally I will never again use higher grit then 200 for final edge on any kind of blade .
 
200 grit? That flies in the face of the 10000 grit waterstone guys.

What are your thoughts on staying at or above 20 grit?

Thanks!
 
Natlek said:
Is not this thread about setting the first edge on finished knife ? You don t start to form/sharpen first edge with 400 or 800 grit ........:) 400 or higher grit are only good for final touch , for final edge/if that is your choice/ before you strop ... Look , I don t like to look like I m some smart a_ , but sharpening is not the same as you work with 800 grit for finish bevel .On bevel you MUST go slow with that belt and only reason is CONTACT surface of steel and number of grit/grain on that surface .More grain on same surface more heat ...On edge contact surface is extremely small.... BW , personally I will never again use higher grit then 200 for final edge on any kind of blade .
Click to expand...
I agree, for most of my working edges I set the edge with 240 grit and make light passes on the same 240 grit to minimize the burr. Then I strop on leather without compound. It'll give me a really nice and sharp working edge with a good bite. It comes out as around 150 BESS.

I used to go high grit on my edges earlier, but I've found that technique and experience is more important to get a consistent, sharp and durable edge.
 
I use the J Neilson technique on a 1x30 even though I have a 2x72. The blades barely even get warm. I use light pressure and keep it moving. Practice on a couple turd knives. Its very easy to do. I Sharpened hundreds of knives and never had a problem.
 
I grind in my edge free-handed, edge-up using my KMG. The trick is low speeds and using a finger between the belt and spine to lock in your angle. I can literally rest my finger against the belt while its moving because they are worn belts moving at slower speeds (my finger ends up kind of shiny afterward, but no damage to speak of). This really helps maintain the same angle every pass on both sides. I start with a worn 400 grit belt. My edges are usually 0.015 or less, so it only takes a few passes on each side of the 400 to get the 'wire' edge (a worn 400 doesn't produce a wire like a 220 would). Then I swap over to a worn 1000grit with stiffer backing to strop/polish the edge. I can get it shave sharp here, but I usually take it to a leather paddle strop to get it insanely sharp. My paddle has two sides; one side has red rouge applied to it and the other has green polishing compound applied to it. I start on the red to get rid of any wire left over (red cuts decently well, so be careful not to take too shallow of an angle and scuff up your bevels) and then finish on the green. My edge looks nearly mirror polished at this point and has very little resistance while cutting.

Dip often, keep the speeds low and you should be able to figure it out. The most important thing I've learned, especially if you are going with a V edge, is maintaining the angle every pass. If you miss it by even a degree or two, the edge with under-perform. Hence why I use my finger to lock in that angle.
 
Oh and one more thing to mention, though it's probably known by most here... Have a very bright light at your grinder. When you are setting the initial bevel with the 400 grit, check the edge by shining the light onto it and looking down onto it for any shiny spots. The shiny spots are dull spots, don't stop with the 400 until all of the shiny spots are gone. Early on, I would move to the 1000 grit too soon and then take forever to get those dull spots out. The edge should be sharp from heel to tip off the 400. Once you get to that point, it should only take a few passes on the 1000 grit to knock the wire off and semi-polish the edge.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top