SHARPENING - stone properties comparison and choosing

Z

zakiya

Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
1
Hello forum members

Okay, well I am not a knife enthusiast and am not really personally interested in these pocket knives that you all have, (although I do appreciate how sharp you guys are getting them!) HOWEVER, I do own a number of blades in various shapes and forms and have a very strong desire (need?want?) to learn to sharpen each of them correctly and efficiently. I feel like it is something I SHOULD be able to do. I have spent a few hours reading this section of your forum plus a few other threads, followed various links, watched a few youtube videos etc. so now have a general idea about sharpening, but still have a few questions.

Firstly, here are the things I would like to sharpen.

(1) kitchen knives (basic Western chef's knife and a small paring knife)
(2) forged dressmaking shears (one Brazilian Mundial pair used for dressmaking, two retro/vintage pairs German & Italian used for general purpose house/garden stuff)
(3) my new Okatsune hedge shears which are BEAUTIFULLY made and were a significant investment for me. Apparently made out of very hard 'Samurai sword' steel.
(4) my rusty old hatchet with which I chop firewood and with which my son chops everything in sight
(5) electric lawnmower blade
(6) any other blades that I acquire such as secateurs, also garden spades, etc.

I would like to be able to sharpen each of these effectively with basically the same equipment (if possible). I realise sharpening is an acquired skill learnt over a lifetime, but I have to start somewhere. I also do not expect to achieve craftsman type results, I just want to be able to confidently take care of my own tools (be 'self-sufficient' so to speak).

I have decided I need three basic stones (either water or oil) with a coarse, medium and fine grit respectively. Just a basic rectangle shape that I can hold in my hand for big items like the hatchet, or put on the table for knives, scissors etc. I'd like to do everything with these three stones, and rather than getting carried away making additional purchases, just be content with what I have and work on my technique. So I need to make sure I buy the right stuff off the bat. (Later on I can always purchase more fine stones to refine things). Does it sound like I am on the right path? Anyhow, I now need to choose the right stones to buy, so need to get my head around a few concepts. I am hoping to get enough info here so that I can choose the ideal stones and hardnesses that will allow me to sharpen ALL of the above items, so if you read/answer my questions please keep in mind the variety of uses the stones will see :)

Here are my questions:

(1) The stones I know of are diamond, Japanese water stone, India stone, Arkansas stone and silicon-carbide. Oh and ceramic. If a stone is not advertised as one of these but rather simply as an 'oil stone' or 'water stone' or just 'sharpening stone' or 'polishing stone' with no mention of grit other than 'coarse' or 'fine' what is it made of? Is it probably aluminium oxide? Will it do the job? I am in NZ and things are REALLY overpriced and often difficult to get, I'm trying to make sense of what is available locally first before ordering a specific brand from the US, so please don't just say "get a so and so".

(2) Both diamond and proper Japanese stones are probably out of the question for me so I'll leave them out of the conversation...What are the difference in properties between India stone, Arkansas stone, silicon carbide and these generic (aluminium oxide?) stones? If I had one of each in the same grit, would they actually be the same grit or is that like comparing apples and pears? How do they compare in terms of durability, use, keeping the stone flat etc.? Which type would be best for a coarse stone, a med. and a fine?

What I think I know so far is:
Norton India Stone - lots of people like, good for beginners, good if you only have one stone, doesn't disintegrate. Very expensive for me to buy here, there is another brand called 'Kinik' which have an India stone which is half the price here - is it the same sort of thing or is Norton one best?

Cheaper aluminium oxide - disintegrates quickly

Arkansas stone - for very fine 'sharpening like surgical

Silicon carbide - I just rang a local trade supplier who stocks the Kinik India stone, he said the SC is NOT for use on steel, it's for carbide tools like drill bits that drill into concrete, it's not meant for steel ... though I know people here use it on their steel knives so ???


(4) What are the properties of 'tungsten-carbide'? I have been looking at purchasing a pair of Bahco professional secateurs and they say use a tungsten-carbide sharpener during the day (has a picture of a little hand held stick thingee), use a coarse stone to take away notches then fine stone to finish the cutting edge. What is different about this carbide stuff that you'd use it "in the day" rather than a regular stone, or that you wouldn't also use it for your routine sharpening? This question really fits into my previous question about how do the different properties compare to one another.

(5) Kitchen knife 'steels' ... they are sold alongside the knives - do they do roughly the same job as a fine stone or stropping?

(6) Am I really overthinking this and should I just be like a normal person and go grab the first stone I see in the closest shop and get sharpening?!

Many thanks for reading :)
Anna
 
Last edited:
Look into waterstones, find some Shapton or Naniwa stones and never look back. Nothing compares to high quality waterstones and they will fulfill more of the tasks you have listed.
 
First post. Welcome and you really like to type. Trying to get it all taken care of in one throw. Many won't read all of your post. Much of your questions have been discussed and answered. Try the google feature. Trade suppliers are not knife sharpeners and don't know. Several here know knife sharpening and silicon carbide is NOT a India stone. It is a different material. Norton has made SiC stones for knife sharpening for over 90yrs.. I think you've gotten some inaccurate information. India stones do not disintegrate quickly, SiC and water stones do. I'll not attempt to answer all of your post. Read more posts here. DM
 
Welcome and check the stickies .. from there you can explore more. Resident experts here are plentiful: David Martin and Jason are two of them. Obsessed with Edges, Heavy Handed and Magnanimous are some more others. Seek their posts/threads.

Enjoy your journey of getting to atom splitting!
 
zakiya said:
I am in NZ and things are REALLY overpriced and often difficult to get, I'm trying to make sense of what is available locally first before ordering a specific brand from the US, so please don't just say "get a so and so".
Click to expand...

Holy cow! Did a little online looking to see what stuff would cost you - over $100 for a King 1000 grit waterstone - is about $22 here. My initial recommendation is going to be get the Kinik India stone and be ready to send it back unless you have it in your hands and the sales staff can explain its properties. Kinik seems to sell hard vitreous stone like an aluminum oxide, as well as waterstones, and silicon carbide. One NZ site listed a Kinik stone next a picture of a Norton India stone (box and all).

zakiya said:
What I think I know so far is:
Norton India Stone - lots of people like, good for beginners, good if you only have one stone, doesn't disintegrate. Very expensive for me to buy here, there is another brand called 'Kinik' which have an India stone which is half the price here - is it the same sort of thing or is Norton one best?

Cheaper aluminium oxide - disintegrates quickly

Arkansas stone - for very fine 'sharpening like surgical

Silicon carbide - I just rang a local trade supplier who stocks the Kinik India stone, he said the SC is NOT for use on steel, it's for carbide tools like drill bits that drill into concrete, it's not meant for steel ... though I know people here use it on their steel knives so ???


(4) What are the properties of 'tungsten-carbide'? I have been looking at purchasing a pair of Bahco professional secateurs and they say use a tungsten-carbide sharpener during the day (has a picture of a little hand held stick thingee), use a coarse stone to take away notches then fine stone to finish the cutting edge. What is different about this carbide stuff that you'd use it "in the day" rather than a regular stone, or that you wouldn't also use it for your routine sharpening? This question really fits into my previous question about how do the different properties compare to one another.

(5) Kitchen knife 'steels' ... they are sold alongside the knives - do they do roughly the same job as a fine stone or stropping?

(6) Am I really overthinking this and should I just be like a normal person and go grab the first stone I see in the closest shop and get sharpening?!

Many thanks for reading :)
Anna
Click to expand...



In general India stones are harder versions of the cheaper aluminum oxide stones - last longer and when broken in will make a finer edge. Not a good choice for heavier work on yard tools though will do a nice job after the rough work has been done with a fine, single cut mill file. For what you intend, a bench stone of some sort is what you will likely wind up with, but a file should part of the kit as a stone isn't really suitable for lawnmower blades, spades etc.

Cheaper aluminum oxide is good for tossing in a drawer for kitchen and utility knives, but not the best choice for anything unless expense is the driving factor. Usually one can get a silicon carbide stone for the same price and they tend to do more work quickly. Better silicon carbide stones are far superior to the cheaper aluminum oxide. Here in US they are found in nearly every hardware store and are a good choice for general work. The silicon carbide abrasive deals with all types of steel very well and can be used with oil, water, or dry (if you clean it after use).

Tungsten carbide sharpeners are a utility tool used to keep an edge sharp where other means might not be practical - generally they do a poor job and are for utility only. We have a forum member that sells one called the ERU and it is a lot more precise than the common varieties and makes a much nicer edge, but maybe not a good choice for all your needs.

Arkansas stones are natural stones that work very well on carbon steel and softer stainless. You will find them slow going on many steels and if they should become damaged from use performance drops way off. Are great choice for a narrow range of tools and not as versatile as you want.

Kitchen knife steels come in two configurations, grooved and smooth. The grooved ones are nothing more than a fine file - can shape an edge or trash one very quickly. They only work well on lower RC steels common to cheaper or older Kitchen cutlery. The smooth variety uses pressure to work harden and burnish the edge on a knife in reasonably sharp condition. It can make a very nice edge but are tricky to learn, easy to misuse, and again, work best on softer kitchen cutlery.

You are overthinking to some extent. Once you develop some sharpening skills and understand the limitations of the various sharpening tools out there, you can fine tune your kit if desired. The link to your shears also listed a coarse stone and a finer waterstone - didn't list sizes or pricing but might be worth a look.

Autosol is a common automotive metal polish in many parts of the world and can make a nice finish compound - stropping paste. Smear on thin paper and wrap around a regular bench stone or metal bar etc - anything hard. This will give you the "fine" in your coarse/medium/fine progression. You could also make a leather strop from cased leather - there are instructions on the forum if you do a search.


Edit to add: I sell a sharpening block through the link in my signature below that is pretty versatile - I use it for everything, but shipping alone will be $25.

Check out the Kinik offerings, check out the silicon carbide stone, check out the stones offered through the retailer of your shears. Use the Autosol for a stropping compound. Explore other gear as your skills improve.

Martin
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top