Sharpening Stones Recommendation

Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
358
Greetings everyone,

I recently purchased Benchmade 485, which will be my new EDC. I currently have two Kershaw knives in my EDC rotation. I sharpen them freehand on King KDS 1000/6000 combination stone. I get razor sharp mirror polished edge with this stone. My new Benchmade has M390 blade steel, from what I read this steel is relatively easy to sharpen. I was wondering can I use my King stone or should I upgrade to diamond or ceramic stones. What would you guys recommend?

Thank you!!!
 
You can do it on the King. If you have something else to actually reprofile the edge then the King will work just fine. Other will work better, but the King, so far as I’ve experienced personally, will work
 
M390 is like some other high carbide 'super steels' like S30v and S35vn, where the vanadium content is around 4%. It seems like the working consensus around here is that as you get into steels with higher carbide content, it's game over, you will absolutely need diamonds. S90v/S110v are good examples.

But a lot of the most popular super steels today like M390, 20cv, CTS XHP, S30v, S35vn, to name a few, are in that category of having 4% or less vanadium. What I'm hearing from pro sharpeners in the forum--and my experience with my own knives in each of these steels mirrors it--is that you CAN sharpen these with other types of abrasives, but you are still going to get optimal sharpening results using diamonds or cbn. I have tested that theory on my own blades in each of the above steels: I tried sharpening them using silicon carbide (SiC) or aluminum oxide (AlOx) stones, and then compared results sharpening the same blades with diamonds. Diamonds always won, they got things noticeably sharper as measured by home sharpness tests per the Sharpness Chart.

However, the difference between using diamonds on these steels, versus say a quality SiC or AlOx stone was not night and day difference, it was just incremental. I sharpened some folders in S30v to shaving sharp just using a coarse Norton Crystolon stone to profile, and a 400 grit Baryonyx Artic Fox AlOx stone to sharpen. However, when I went back and redid these same blades using diamond plates, they did even better. So in my testing, the different outcomes between using diamond versus other abrasives was not 'pass' versus 'fail.' It was more like 'good' (for the non-diamond options) versus 'excellent' (using diamonds).

Keeping all that in mind: if you only have 1 or a couple blades in steels like M390, to keep your costs down, you might start by just sharpening them on your existing stones and see what kind of results you get. Try the sharpness tests indicated in the Sharpness Chart. If you can get them shaving sharp, are happy with the results, and the knives work for what you need, you may be able to skip buying diamond plates and just use what you have. If you start getting more super steel knives or decide to add diamond plates later, I recommend DMT or Atoma.
 
When I have to take a lot of metal off a high vanadium steel I go with diamond plates usually using a water stone slurry.

For refining these steels I go with whatever I think will get me to my end goal.
The King 4K and 6k work but depending on steel and hardness it can be slow going.

Since you have the King combo a diamond plate would be a great addition for stone flattening and reprofiling.
 
With a high carbide volume steel you can literally feel a King 1000 glazing over as the carbides in the steel crush and polish the aluminum oxide abrasive. The problem only gets worse as you go finer, the 6k King will "slip" a lot, the finish won't be polished as it should and there will be an impossible burr.

You can get by (marginally) with some very good SiC stones but diamond really is best for high alloy steels.
 
Given Jason's experience in sharpening, I wanted to double-check my own experiences with the King 1200, as it had been a long time since I'd actually put M390 to it. I wanted to make sure my memories had not been contorted over time.

The knife is the Benchmade 581 Barrage in M390 at 60-62 rockwell
The stones are the King 1200, King 6000, and a suede leather strop with standard green compound at ~.5 microns.
Total time from wholly unable to cut printer paper to push-cutting with and against the grain on phonebook paper was 20-25 minutes

The glazing Jason mentions does happen if, like me, you prefer a very light touch in sharpening. However, upon the use of some pressure, though not nearly so much as to be uncomfortable, the stone worked the M390 quite well, building up a decent bit of swarf.
HMI44cV.jpg


When I noted the glazing with a feather-light touch, there was some burnishing present, giving the edge a higher-than-1k appearance. Concerned for this, I checked the edge after the above work and, with the heavier strokes, saw the 1200 yield a finish in line with the grit rating. The picture is crappy, and is only meant to show the absence of the sheen the burnished edge had:
YOzu20d.jpg

Notice the matte grey finish.

Higher pressure strokes (though, again, considerable pressure is not required, only a comfortable moderate pressure) allowed the surface to refresh itself even against the M390. Notice in this picture the sandblasted finish of the stone as opposed to the slicker, smoother look a glazed surface offers:
EZ2gLSe.jpg


After gently deburring on the stone, and cleaning the edge with one single light pass (on each side of the edge) on the strop, the edge whispered through phonebook paper.
vv8F5T2.jpg


Then it was time for the King 6k, which I personally felt did not feel any different. The stone has always felt incredibly hard and slick, no matter what steel I hit it with. The stone generates no mud, only swarf. On this stone, I used moderate pressure in the beginning and faded out to my standard light pressure by the end. I then flushed the stone's surface, deburred, and stropped on the leather for a total of 30 strokes. I personally did not encounter any difficulties with the burr on either stone. After the 6k, the blade was effortlessly push-cutting phonebook paper with and against the grain.
VKqCtqT.jpg


One of the issues Jason mentioned was a lower-than-typical polish, so I wanted to compare a few edges:
Yy4yNCF.jpg

Above is the 581 Barrage
mf1Y1kW.jpg

Above is the 300 Axis in 154CM
I8ePMon.jpg

Above is the Kizer Vanguard Sovereign in VG-10. As you may be able to tell, this edge is the most highly polished, but it has undergone more stropping than the other two. However, none of the edges differ greatly despite all coming off the King 6000 and hitting the chromium oxide compound for some stropping.


Although the King stones are far from the best, I do think they sometimes have an overly negative reputation. Personally, my King 1k and 1200 have been used successfully on M4 (62-64HRC), M390 (60-62HRC), CTS-204P, CTS-XHP, and numerous examples of S30V and S35VN. What they have not seen are the ultra-max steels like S90-110, Maxamet, 10V, 121 REX, etc, so I will withhold my opinion on them.

So I have affirmed what I originally stated: Kings will work, but others will work better. Higher density aluminum oxide abrasives like Naniwa Pro will work faster and with less pressure, and diamond plates will work with the least amount of pressure, although I wouldn't say they're noticeably faster lest you risk scraping the diamonds off the plate.

You asked if you should upgrade, though: I say buy as diverse a sharpening arsenal as your wallet will permit. Kings are plenty adequate for non-supersteels in particular, Naniwa Pro stones are the ultimate in waterstones, diamond plates will be optimal for ultrasteels (and the reigning gods of reprofiling, in my opinion), Norton Crystolon is an incredible value (and basically the only oilstone I think is worth a damn), et cetera, et cetera. With more diversity, you will be able to have a best-for-use option which will save you time and effort; as you saw, it took me 20ish minutes to resharpen the 581, whereas I would typically expect that job to take me about 10-15 minutes.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top