Sheaths from Knifemakers, Good, Bad or Indifferant

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.45acp

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May 25, 2002
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Sheaths from Knifemakers, Good, Bad or Indifferant

In the past several years I have purchase a number of high-end knives that the sheaths appear to be designed around/for military applications. The low ride belt sheath made of nylon with a kydex insert type is fine for web gear or when used with a pack of some kind. And being well past the age where I be jumping out of airplanes for a living the jumpable sheaths do not interest me. There is nothing wrong with this type of sheath, except I don’t find them well suited to every day carry especially with knives under 5 inches of blade length.
Now for the sake of clarity, I want to confine the discussion to blades 5” and under in length. In discussions with others, I have found the most dissatisfaction with sheaths of this blade length and smaller. I personally like blades of up 7 and 8 inches to also have the hilt at belt level, but that is just my preference.
I find that having the hilt at the top of belt level works out the best overall for me. What I mean by best overall is the following.

· Accessibility, closeness to the hand.
· Ease of concealment
· Keeps the knife close to the body, resists flopping around during strenuous activities without a thigh strap.

As a result I have gone to several after market sheath makers to fabricate what works for me, generally in kydex, although my preference is leather, it does not work as well as kydex in humid or rainy climates.

What do you guys (and gals) think, are you well served in general use by sheaths as supplied by the makers.

What is you favorite sheath material?
 
If you take a look at a post by Horus (??) in the gallery, you will see a pancake style sheath that I think is about as good as it gets for everyday carry
 
I like leather sheaths for my carbon steel, leather/wood handled fixed blades, mainly for aesthetic reasons. My F1 came with an excellent leather sheath, but it now resides in a Concealex sheath by Normark, a perfect mate for that blade. It fits all the criteria outlined (and then some, since Eric is a great guy to deal with). For sheer utility the new synthetics are tough to beat, especially when well crafted by a knowledgeable maker such as Normark.
 
Even though the nylon sheath that came with my Buck 110 is adequate, I would have preferred for it to have been leather. :( I eventually bought an open-end leather sheath from Lifter, that is set up for horizontal carry, with a slight upward angle. :D
 
Me, I'm a Kenny Rowe man. He makes fine pieces of functional art, well deserving of a fine blade.
 
I've made a dozen or so knives now, and I've given a few away and sold a few too. I don't make sheaths. This is for a couple of reasons. First of all, I don't have the time to get involved in sheath making! I barely have the time I have to make knives, so I'd rather make knives in my spare time than make a knife and a sheath once in a blue moon. But another significant reason is exactly the point that .45ACP is raising. Even if I make a 4" utility knife, a campler, a soldier, and a police officer who might want that knife liekly will all have different sheath requirements. I think it is best for me to make a good knife and then let whomever gets that knife from me get the perfect sheath they'd need. I made a knife for my brother in law which he uses when hiking and when on search and rescue outings. I sent the knife to Allen Blade to have a kydex sheath made because that was the perfect material for my brother in law's needs. The kydex is light, hangs on to the knife very well, the dirt and salt water (he's out in Vacouver) won't affect the sheath, and kydex's shortcomings (mars a finish sometimes, plastic sheaths are loud) are no problem for him and his knife. I don't think that the same sheath would be good for a soldier though. Greg Walker wrote in his Battle Blades book that nylon with a plastic insert is best for soldiers, as you get a secure hold of the knife, a durable sheath, and one that is QUIET. But for many EDC needs, or when camping, leather is fantastic! A well made 3-4" fixed blade in a well done leather sheath isn't a scary knife at all, and makes a handsome package. But again, not one that is best for a search and rescue guy or maybe military guys.

In Japan during feudal times, and even today, when yoy purchase a sword it goes to 3 craftsmen, not one. One guy forges and heat treats the blade, one guy polishes the blade, and one guy makes the fittings and the scabbard. I take this approach, and likely will for most of the knives I make. I'd rather send a knife to Normark for kydex- not only does it free me up to make knives, but someone wanting a kydex sheath will get a GREAT kydex. And this sheath will be better than I could make.
 
I like Don Cowles in-the-pocket system with a magnet to hold it in. I also like David Boye's brass in cordura system, worn horozontally. Both these sheaths have the knife in plain sight, but most people never see it.

Crayola, irrespective of what you personally want to do, your customers need a sheath to make your blade useful. Truly excellent blade design keep in mind the intended use of the knife, and thus must include the carry system. I have bought knives with poor sheaths and had new ones made, but when I buy I a knife I like to see some type of sheath, so I can at least strap it on for awhile and play cowboy, soldier, hunter, etc. You need to partner with someone with sheath skills, or just make a simple pocket sheath so the guy can wear it, and maybe buy something better later on. Calling yourself a knifemaker, but ignoring the carry system is not wise.
 
I would like to respectfully disagree with brownshoe. As long as a customer knows what they are getting there's no reason why a knifemaker must also be a sheathmaker. I would rather pay once for an excellent sheath than once to the knifemaker for something adequate and again to a sheathmaker for something better.

I had the Camillus OVB Fisk Southwest Bowie that I just bought shipped directly to Mike Sastre so he can fit it with a Southern Comfort kydex sheath. I'd have been just as happy to save the few bucks that Camillus spent on a piece of leather I will never use.

--Bob Q
 
I don't care if the knifemaker makes his own shealths or sends out to have them done, but I wouldn't buy a fixed blade unless it comes with one. It just seems wrong to me.
 
I feel the same way as TBG about a fixed blade having a sheath. One knifemaker I dealt with (and still do) was honest & above board when he told me he makes a 'crappy' sheath. I just told him ship the knife with your sheath, if I really can't stand it, I'll ask a sheathmaker to make a good one. I'm still using his sheath even though it isn't the fanciest sheath out there!
 
Going to be getting a custom 4" Skean Dhu made for me end of June/early July. Ron L of Little Hen Knives is checking into prices on material for the specs I sent him. I'm saving a little bit of cash by not getting a leather sheath from him, and shipping it to Eric for a rig. I might get a leather sheath later on from a sheathmaker(like G2 or dave "lifter"), and it'll likely cost me as much as the one from Eric.

I'd rather use people that speciallize in a field, as the detail & quality will be up higher than a knifemaker making a sheath for thier knife(usually, and thats due to time).
 
All good points from folks that have different expectations from the craftsman that we purchase a blade from. From the maker that I have spoke with, several have admitted that they have others craft the sheaths. My question was, do the sheaths as supplied meet your needs.

I for one would prefere that the maker tell me he makes a crappy sheath, before i recieve the knife.
 
I generally don't like "stock" sheaths unless the knife comes from Bladerigger :)

I think it's perfectly reasonable to get a custom sheath made to your specs by a "sheath specialist"...for me, the "carry system" contributes significantly to the enjoyment of the knife (how useful is the knife if it's not with you because you can't carry it the way you want to??)...for example, fellow forumite RAYE just made a sheath for my Flava fighter (made by another fellow forumite) set-up for strong side reverse-grip carry (my preferred method of carry), effectively converting the knife from a "safe queen" to a serious defensive carry piece.

As for my favourite sheath material...definitely Riggercoated kydex :)

RL
 
brownshoe,

allow me to clarify what I posted a bit. So fat I have sold a whopping 3 knives! One was a 8" chef's blade and I made a very nice cardboard sleeve for it. The other 2 knives were small fixed blades, like an EDC folder replacement type. Both folks who bought them knew very much in advance that they did not come with a sheath. Also, I told both people that though they don't come with a sheath, there is a local leather maker guy here who does very good work for a very good price, and I could have a leather sheath made for the knife. Then I would just add the cost of the sheath to the cost of the knife and it could be sent out. Both customers said thanks but they'd take care of sheathing. So everyone came out happy, and was well informed from the get go.

Part of the reason I do things this way is because I am just a hobby maker. For the most part, I make knives to learn about them. It just so happens that when the knives are done, some folks want to purchase them. Lucky me! So I am not really a "normal" knife maker, who makes a knife and tries to sell it through advertising and such. But notice that I do provide an option for folks who do want to buy a knife that I make. If they want, I can get a nice leather sheath made for the knife. As I said, this only adds the cost of the sheath and a bit of time. The local guy can do a far better job than I could and probably for a cheaper price! But I also like doing things this way because any customer of mine can save a few bucks upfront and have that put towards the sheath they really want. A good knife in a crappy carry system doesn't really fir the "total package" idea. So I really prefer giving a customer the options.

For example, I dropped a blade off at my heat treater today that is for my first repeat customer (thanks bro!). It is a 7" spear point utility/combatish blade. For a leather sheath, I am ROUGHLY guessing that it would cost $30+ for a leather sheath to be made. Suppose I just went ahead and got that sheath made, but the customer wanted a nylon sheath. He would then have to fork out $30 or $35 to Eagle or Blackhawk and get a nice nylon sheath, or $50+ to SOE for a custom nylon sheath. That $30 for a leather sheath could have gone towards the exact sheath the customer wanted! So I think this flexibility allows for me and the customer to win.

If I were going to get a table at a knife show and have a bunch of blades for sale, I would go ahead and get sheaths made for them. But for the way I make knives and the folks that are interested in them, they and I win big by allowing sheath makers handle the sheaths, while I handle the knives. In the end it is less costly and the person gets a sheath they really want. So I hope you see I do not ignore the sheath at all, but rather I'd like to work with a customer to ensure they get the sheath they want without having to pay more than they really need.
 
I understand where you're at Crayola. However, I do believe that for a knive designed for everyday carry, that you might want to considere designing both the sheath and knife, even if the sheath is made by someone else. Look at Don Cowles knives and carry system, the flat blade design and his in-pocket sheath work together in a remarkably effective package. Same can be said for David Boye's Basic series, where the flat blade, cordura sheath with liner are a total package. Bud Nealy and Bob Dozier are two other examples.
 
The stock sheaths that have come with my factory fixed blades have been marginal at best. I usually get replacement kydex done by On/Scene Tactical.

However, the sheath on my first (and currently only) custom knife, my Trace Rinaldi Enigma, is top notch! Very well formed kydex and a well placed teklok make for a great carry system. Normally, I'd prefer the sheath be riveted together, but the screws on this sheath have allowed me to alter the hold on the knife slightly, which is a very nice option.
 
Now that I’m no longer employed by SOG Specialty Knives, I can be free to share my personal opinions, rather than being required to state the “company position.” I’ve always struggled with the quality of SOG’s sheaths. I bet you didn't think I'd weigh in on this on! :)

SOG knives or tools are of great quality and in many cases, of innovative design. Reasonable thought would then conclude that the sheath/pouch which carried the knife/tool would be of equal quality. At SOG, this just wasn’t the case. Whether it is any generation SOG Kydex sheath, later generations leather sheaths (some earlier leather sheaths were nice as were the simple but functional nylon sheaths for fixed blades), or both nylon and leather pouches for the tool line, the materials used and the manufacturing quality just didn’t match the of the product it carried. The rationale was to exclude sheaths from warranty and state that when a sheath/pouch quickly wore out, it was considered normal wear and a replacement could be purchased. We were forced to come up with an analogy to explain why their sheath/pouch wore out within a year. What we came up with was that like a car, the vehicle will outlast a set of tires. In fact, through the life of a typical automobile, maybe four sets of tires will be used. I personally just don’t buy that, but had to “sell” it. I simply can’t count the number of times a SOG customer would tell me we had a Nordstrom product, but put it in a Kmart sheath (the descriptions changed, but this was more representative).

Cost is the reason SOG uses the sheaths and sheath materials it does. By keeping the cost of the sheath as low as possible, the profit margin gets bigger.

I can say that the difference between the sheaths SOG uses and upgrading the sheaths to ones that are commensurate to the knives/tools it holds is not all that great. The sheath/pouch is only a small fraction of the overall cost of the overall boxed product. That small fraction need only be increased by 10-20% to make a noticeable difference that would eliminate these concerns.

SOG is a great company…one for which I really enjoyed working. Issues on which I disagreed with the company, like this one, are few.

Now a word about Eric E. Noeldechen (“Normark” here on the forums) On/Scene Tactical. I have about 7-8 custom made sheaths from Eric (see one of them with my Busse Natural Outlaw below) and his MicroRig to hold my TiNi Gold CrossCut to my key ring (see MicroRig below). His sheaths are among the best currently being made, his prices are very reasonable, and Eric is the nicest guy on the planet!


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On/Scene Tactical sheath with my Busse Natural Outlaw


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On/Scene Tactical sheath for my Gold TiNi CrossCut (also pictured is the SOG Blink, the discontinued Mini JetEdge, and my Z key with alarm fab)
 
One maker who supplies a first rate sheath is Randall Made Knives. First rate materials and quality manufacture.

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Randall Sheaths Webpage


Edited by Ron Andersen to fix image posting problem.
 
Originally posted by Loki
One maker who supplies a first rate sheath is Randall Made Knives. First rate materials and quality manufacture.
Click to expand...
Absolutely!!!! You couldn't be more right.
 
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