Shirogorov Questions!

[PinkmagicK]

I'm interested in picking up a Shiro F95 Nudist in preferably S90V, Elmax, or M390 but have a few Q's I thought you guys more familiar with the knife and brand may be able to answer.

What's the going rate for these knives? Is the markup worth it in your opinion? It's been hard to pinpoint a good or fair price for this model.

Have these been made with washers or just bearings? I would actually prefer a model that rides on washers, had a F95 T pattern with the srbs and was not a huge fan of the action believe it or not! I guess I just like how washers feel, that must be the CRK fanboy in me haha.

I'm looking for the lightest and slimmest possible version of this knife. Are any of these models made with skelotonized handles or are they all solid slabs of Ti? (Side note, any Custom Division models are out of my price range)

Also, would love to see user pics and or thoughts/opinions/experiences any of you may have about these knives! Cheers and thanks in advance.

 

[SVTFreak]

They are finally coming down to a price that is worth it. By the time you figure shipping rate and overseas markets.

If you prefer washers, go for it, or consider a hati. They are lighter also than the f95. I do think the shiros are exceptionally fine blades (also crk lover) and their Elmax and m390 is incredible (I have two Elmax and a m390). For and finish on par with crk easily.

I have a nudist in Elmax with bearings and agree. While it's super smooth and easy I also like the washers in my pair of hati's. They are both excellent.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

I don't have much to say here, as I've never owned a Shiro. I would sure love an F3 though!!!

I've heard from some Shirogorov owners that the ones with washers are the smoothest. I've read that statement multiple times, and from people who own multiple Shiros with multiple types of pivot systems (single row, multi row, etc..).

 

[PinkmagicK]

I don't have much to say here, as I've never owned a Shiro. I would sure love an F3 though!!!

I've heard from some Shirogorov owners that the ones with washers are the smoothest. I've read that statement multiple times, and from people who own multiple Shiros with multiple types of pivot systems (single row, multi row, etc..).

I love the F3's design and liner lock mechanism but I think it'd just be too big of a blade for me to comfortably carry! The F95 is just on the edge of being too big for me.

That's good to hear about the washers, that's most likely what I'll go with!

 

[shady A.M.]

I have an F3 and two Hati's. Price is definitely coming down. IMO, between 5-600.00 is good for a Hati, and anything under 700.00 would be fair for a 95. The model you are looking for (nudist, washers, S90V) is gonna be hard to find in those price ranges. I'm not even sure if you can find a new 95 on washers.

The SRBS on my F3 is like lightening, it opens with the authority of an auto. Both my Hatis are smooth but it wasn't until I disassembled them and lightly oiled the washers that the action completely changed... A little bit of oil goes a long way. Now they flip almost as smooth as the F3.

I would just keep looking for a good deal on a Hati and use the crap out of it.

 

[SVTFreak]

I have never and won't say the washers are smoother, they are just different.

I will say that with time, the washers get better. The bearings are easier, not necessarily smoother.

 

[Sikael]

I've got two F95's, one a 'T' and one a Nudist. The Mod 95 is my personal pick for best EDC (based on my weird criteria). Both are far smoother than any knife I've owned, and use the SRBS bearings. The 95T is as smooth as any knife can get... it drops with just a slight nudge, and there is no hint of movement in the bearings. The Nudist has an Elmax blade with a bead-blasted finish, while the T has a glossy stonewash, making it a touch smoother. Both are perfect, not a single complaint. I'd recommend the bearings, but I'm sure the washers are great; I've heard the washers are not as smooth, from someone who's handled more than anyone on BF (I could be wrong... lets say 'almost anyone' on BF), and sells them regularly. But... definitions of 'smooth' can vary greatly.

One thing I would change... I'm looking for someone to do a serious mod on the 95 Natural; I'd like to mill out an inlay shaped like the 95CF models, but using mokume instead of CF, with a seamless feel. Anyone interested can PM me. Sorry for the derail...

 

[PinkmagicK]

I have an F3 and two Hati's. Price is definitely coming down. IMO, between 5-600.00 is good for a Hati, and anything under 700.00 would be fair for a 95. The model you are looking for (nudist, washers, S90V) is gonna be hard to find in those price ranges. I'm not even sure if you can find a new 95 on washers.

The SRBS on my F3 is like lightening, it opens with the authority of an auto. Both my Hatis are smooth but it wasn't until I disassembled them and lightly oiled the washers that the action completely changed... A little bit of oil goes a long way. Now they flip almost as smooth as the F3.

I would just keep looking for a good deal on a Hati and use the crap out of it.

I think you've just convinced me to go with the Hati! That model does sound more appealing actually. Lighter for me is definitely better, plus I like that they run on washers and go for a lower price! Now the quest to find one for a good price! I'll probably go with the CF over the G10 variants.

 

[anvil_den]

Ok I will share what I have discovered so far with my Shiros..
Not important but for those that like to tweak their knives to have that controlled "auto-shutdown" with a deliberate last bit closing action-- choose the older SRBS with a bevel retainer and race groove. Older as in maybe pre-2014 (not too sure when they started changing)
The newer ones with flat retainers are smooth too but just doesn't close quite the same.

Here's a pic to illustrate the diff...

and a short vid on that "deliberate closing".. it has the bearings that's on the left in above pic.
[video=youtube;C-oEGneLs3I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-oEGneLs3I[/video]

Std factory production F95/ Hati are all non skeletonized unless its Custom Division or have been customized by 3rd parties... this one here has even more cutouts done on the insides than the Custom Division pcs. Really maxed out in the modding.

Steel wise-- I like the Elmax but my consistently used EDC is S90v. Not as chippy as some other S90v knives I have. Could be good and bad depending on how one look at it.. it doesn't chip so maybe the hardness is not up as high as it could be, hence gains a little better on toughness. Pretty easy to sharpen too --- these 2 factors together really make me think it errs on the side of tough against hard.

I keep it at ~800-1000 grit for better bite when cutting anyway. Their S30v looks pretty decent too but I really haven't cut enough with mine having those steel to put a sure stamp of approval. As for using.. once past the first cut and putting on a little scratch or ding, there's no looking back. Just another good knife to use.

Washers.. I beg to differ that their actions are not as good as the bearings. For ease of maintenance especially in the field I prefer the washers. Bearing vs washer actions are different. Washers simply just don't close down by themselves most time that's all. The factory lube as observed on washers are usually too viscous. A good wipe and a proper lubing later.. action is pretty awesome. Like any other well designed knives running on PB washers.

My Dark (running on washer) after a tune up
[video=youtube;BSlpWtuuEfc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSlpWtuuEfc[/video]

For bearings they usually are smooth and silent-- that is until one decide to add a drop of oil here and there. Then all the gritty sound start to surface. Factory default seems to be using graphite paste. These things don't gel well with anything else added. They clump and make those awful sandy grinding sound when u do. All of mine has been opened up and repacked with bike/ rc toys bearing grease mixtures anyway. So there's nothing original about the grease in my Shiros

 

[Sikael]

Epic post, anvil den:thumbup:. Saying that the SRBS runs 'better' than washers is ridiculous... and so is saying washers are 'better'. 'Smoother' doesn't equal better, and opinions on smooth will differ. All I can say is what I prefer, what I've experienced, and what I've heard from other users. It's largely subjective when people start discussing 'smooth', and absurdly controversial. Shirogorovs are known for their action, regardless which pivot system they're running on. MRBS, SRBS, washers -- you won't be disappointed.

Personally, I've had nothing but good experiences with the 'new' SRBS, so I have no real interest in the washers, but would like to see how the SRRBS/DRRBS feel. I've noticed that while many of the Custom Division and full custom Sergey Shirogorov knives use MRBS, SRRBS or DRRBS, there's also DLC-coated CPM 3V CD's that use washers, and no doubt other CD variations that use washers for customers that prefer them.

 

[anvil_den]

Thanks Sikael. I had the chance to put my greasy hands on a DRRBS, a Poluchetky and SRRBS, a CD Slim. After the break in, the outward opening action is distinctly different from the ball bearing type be it SRBS or MRBS. Can actually feel the vibration on the blade over those rollers. No stiction but a very soft vibe and a bank vault door feel if it can be describe as such. Im not too imaginative with words tonite

Bearings on the other hand impart that "dancing on points" for the blade even if its the MRBS.

Between MRBS- I prefer the original "mickey mouse ones with 27 balls per side by SiDi. The Shiro version runs asymetric 27, 21. Then again it could just be my bias.. they are on 2 different knives so weight distribution, different materials and centrifugal force of knife action.. all of which can skew how the bearings "feel".

One more pic for easy ref to above on MRBS diff... ')

I think by now it has settled down to some kind of a de-facto std for what's used on what.. CD are almost all SRRBS and Sergey's full custom are DRRBS. It's the early ones and those before CD that had some degree of customization which can run anything from washer to SRBS and MRBS.. CD is really just another tier of marketing.. something to differentiate and add value to those who care about some small differences in most of these produced imo. Having said there are a few CD that really strikes my fancy

 

[Sikael]

Thanks Sikael. I had the chance to put my greasy hands on a DRRBS, a Poluchetky and SRRBS, a CD Slim. After the break in, the outward opening action is distinctly different from the ball bearing type be it SRBS or MRBS. Can actually feel the vibration on the blade over those rollers. No stiction but a very soft vibe and a bank vault door feel if it can be describe as such. Im not too imaginative with words tonite

Bearings on the other hand impart that "dancing on points" for the blade even if its the MRBS.

Between MRBS- I prefer the original "mickey mouse ones with 27 balls per side by SiDi. The Shiro version runs asymetric 27, 21. Then again it could just be my bias.. they are on 2 different knives so weight distribution, different materials and centrifugal force of knife action.. all of which can skew how the bearings "feel".

One more pic for easy ref to above on MRBS diff... ')

I think by now it has settled down to some kind of a de-facto std for what's used on what.. CD are almost all SRRBS and Sergey's full custom are DRRBS. It's the early ones and those before CD that had some degree of customization which can run anything from washer to SRBS and MRBS.. CD is really just another tier of marketing.. something to differentiate and add value to those who care about some small differences in most of these produced imo. Having said there are a few CD that really strikes my fancy

Nice pics and breakdown. And that's about as good as anyone can do trying to describe very, very subtle variations in feel, or tactile 'data'. Sometimes individual knives of identical make can feel surprisingly different; the 95T with SRBS has no feel of 'rolling' ball bearings, and it's fully tightened up without a whisper of play; it feels like a billiard ball gently sliding on glass. The 95 Nudist has no feel of 'rolling' either, but drops a bit more slowly, with the slight stop before dropping onto the detent ball. I know what you mean -- I think -- with the 'dancing on points' feel. Most of the Zero Tolerance and mid-tech flippers had a slight vibration, or a sensation of moving from one 'point' to another. Even then, compared to the Teflon washers of an XM-18, I found the ZT Hinderers on bearings, like the 0392, were much nicer to use. Knives like the Spyderco Slysz Bowie, on the other hand, uses relatively thick phosphor bronze washers, and are very smooth, it just doesn't have the free, frictionless feel of the 95T. Then there's the Sebenza... the perforated washers require grease, but give it an even-ness that I don't think 'smooth' is the best word for. It has a soft, hydraulic-type resistance that is unlike any other knife I've used.

And yeah, the CD used MRBS on the Hati Seashells for awhile, and it was hard to tell what the standard was with any model; I kind of like that chaotic range of steels and pivot systems that they had, but whatever... so only non-CD 111's and F3's use MRBS now? Huh.

 

[PinkmagicK]

Thank you for that comprehensive post anvil_den! That milled out job on that 95 is awesome. I am set on getting a Hati per shady A.M.'s recommendation, one is Elmax and Carbon fiber scale would be perfect. Now just to find one for sale for not a ludacris price! Proving a hard task...

 

[shady A.M.]

Good choice Pinkmagick!! My first Shiro was an orange G-10 Hati in Elmax... It's still my favorite carry knife, despite the fact that I have a Hati in CF/Vanax35 and an F3 in S90V.

Based on the last few weeks, it shouldnt be to difficult to locate a black G-10 Hati in M390 or Elmax. I'd send a PM to VladmirK and see what he has.

 

[anvil_den]

Thank you for that comprehensive post anvil_den! That milled out job on that 95 is awesome. I am set on getting a Hati per shady A.M.'s recommendation, one is Elmax and Carbon fiber scale would be perfect. Now just to find one for sale for not a ludacris price! Proving a hard task...

That's the same exact combo I had in mind -- Elmax+ CF scale Hati ( I want it with washer though)
Had to shelf the idea...till there's more funds..
Hope you find yours soon

 

[PinkmagicK]

Vlad actually contacted me about wanting to trade a CF Hati in S30V for one of my blades. I'm really wanting one in the steel choices I listed so I turned down the deal but he's an awesome guy to deal with! I bought my F95 from him a while ago.

Good choice Pinkmagick!! My first Shiro was an orange G-10 Hati in Elmax... It's still my favorite carry knife, despite the fact that I have a Hati in CF/Vanax35 and an F3 in S90V.

Based on the last few weeks, it shouldnt be to difficult to locate a black G-10 Hati in M390 or Elmax. I'd send a PM to VladmirK and see what he has.

 

[shady A.M.]

Email sent.

Vlad actually contacted me about wanting to trade a CF Hati in S30V for one of my blades. I'm really wanting one in the steel choices I listed so I turned down the deal but he's an awesome guy to deal with! I bought my F95 from him a while ago.

 

[PinkmagicK]

Email sent.

Replied! Thanks shady.

 

[J_Curd]

Is there a place to get a wrench that fits the custom slots on the screws? I have a 111 and an F3 should arrive tomorrow...

 

[shady A.M.]

If it's a the standard slots and not the CD duckfoot style, all you need to do is get a file and some wide straight screwdriver bits and file it down to fit in the the slot. To prevent any "buggering" of the edges of the slot, you'll need to file a relief in to the sides of the bit so it doesn't make contact with the top edges of the screw.

It's not difficult, it just takes time and patience.