- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 8,216
Mat, I recognized it was an A2 Shiv, earlier than the 3V, and wanted one more. There are differences between the A2 and 3V Shiv that most people don't see or realize. At the risk of being repetitive, I am going to paste some comments from way earlier in this thread that Nathan made long ago, expanding on the differences and the approximate number of each produced:
COMMENTARY BY NATHAN
"A2 and 3V were both ground and unground. A2 grinds nicer but 3V benefits from it more due to removing deeper tool marks from milling a relatively difficult material.
When I moved from A2 to 3V I updated the design. There are different kinds of toughness and durability, but gross toughness (the ability to resist large blowouts or breaking) is better in 3V due to alloy, manufacturing process, and microstructure. This leads to a thinner blade, and that led to a trickle down in design tweaks including changes to the fuller, the plunge, the swedge and the internal skeletonizing for balance issues. There was a significant reduction in weight. At the same time I shifted the thumb ramp slightly forward and added the chamfers. The changes to the location of the thumb ramp and the internal skeletonizing are visible tweaks that I'm not sure anyone has ever noticed before.
Another tweak was the hand grip. It is designed to sit across your palm at an angle and the sculpting is designed so that it extends straight out aligned with your arm. This is important when stabbing something in the dark. Try it with a Shiv then try it with someone else's "fighter", you'll see slab sided knives jut out at a weird angle, not in line. The Shiv grip is tuned. Well, it was tuned for me, I have big chunky palms. The first few were more extreme, I dialed it in for more of a 50th percentile male after the first run.
Fun fact: the scales on the Shiv and the UF are interchangeable, but different. The UF is thinner to carry flat. The Shiv is a full on stabbing weapon without those concessions.
The flares on the scales align with your palm when indexed against the guard and thumb ramp when held in a reverse grip. That reverse grip is one reason the butt end of it looks like it does. The distance from the butt to the flares are tuned for an average size thumb to get around the butt. Try holding other knives in a reverse grip and you'll see what I'm talking about.
At some point in the process I changed my signature slightly, moving a letter over a tad and changing the relative depth of some areas. The depth of the signature varies to simulate the variations in width of the actual signature that it was scanned from and these tweaks were done during the Shiv runs.
The first Shivs had a thicker point and edge and were sharpened at 23 degrees per side then convexed. They're very durable but didn't cut great. They were a sharp pry bar that could open a hole in a brick wall. As time went on the Shivs got thinner and sharper. I transitioned into a 20 degree V edge and brought the swedge up to meet the edge near the point. In testing this geometry can be thrown into a 1" decking board or 3/4" plywood and penetrate through for a couple inches, but can be thrown into a brick paver with the same force without losing the point. I feel we've hit the sweet spot for penetration vs durability.
Fun fact: The very first Shiv was a test knife. It was finally broken a few days ago. It has been a rough use knife in the shop all these years. It tore down part of a brick wall, cut the steel strapping on pallets of incoming materials and opened all the incoming crates by batoning through all the nails. Cutting though the nails is easier than prying. Years of being hit with a 4 pound hammer finally caught up with it a few days ago. It was A2. To my knowledge the only 3V Shivs that have ever broken were done intentionally in a vise with a cheater bar."
COMMENTARY BY NATHAN
"A2 and 3V were both ground and unground. A2 grinds nicer but 3V benefits from it more due to removing deeper tool marks from milling a relatively difficult material.
When I moved from A2 to 3V I updated the design. There are different kinds of toughness and durability, but gross toughness (the ability to resist large blowouts or breaking) is better in 3V due to alloy, manufacturing process, and microstructure. This leads to a thinner blade, and that led to a trickle down in design tweaks including changes to the fuller, the plunge, the swedge and the internal skeletonizing for balance issues. There was a significant reduction in weight. At the same time I shifted the thumb ramp slightly forward and added the chamfers. The changes to the location of the thumb ramp and the internal skeletonizing are visible tweaks that I'm not sure anyone has ever noticed before.
Another tweak was the hand grip. It is designed to sit across your palm at an angle and the sculpting is designed so that it extends straight out aligned with your arm. This is important when stabbing something in the dark. Try it with a Shiv then try it with someone else's "fighter", you'll see slab sided knives jut out at a weird angle, not in line. The Shiv grip is tuned. Well, it was tuned for me, I have big chunky palms. The first few were more extreme, I dialed it in for more of a 50th percentile male after the first run.
Fun fact: the scales on the Shiv and the UF are interchangeable, but different. The UF is thinner to carry flat. The Shiv is a full on stabbing weapon without those concessions.
The flares on the scales align with your palm when indexed against the guard and thumb ramp when held in a reverse grip. That reverse grip is one reason the butt end of it looks like it does. The distance from the butt to the flares are tuned for an average size thumb to get around the butt. Try holding other knives in a reverse grip and you'll see what I'm talking about.
At some point in the process I changed my signature slightly, moving a letter over a tad and changing the relative depth of some areas. The depth of the signature varies to simulate the variations in width of the actual signature that it was scanned from and these tweaks were done during the Shiv runs.
The first Shivs had a thicker point and edge and were sharpened at 23 degrees per side then convexed. They're very durable but didn't cut great. They were a sharp pry bar that could open a hole in a brick wall. As time went on the Shivs got thinner and sharper. I transitioned into a 20 degree V edge and brought the swedge up to meet the edge near the point. In testing this geometry can be thrown into a 1" decking board or 3/4" plywood and penetrate through for a couple inches, but can be thrown into a brick paver with the same force without losing the point. I feel we've hit the sweet spot for penetration vs durability.
Fun fact: The very first Shiv was a test knife. It was finally broken a few days ago. It has been a rough use knife in the shop all these years. It tore down part of a brick wall, cut the steel strapping on pallets of incoming materials and opened all the incoming crates by batoning through all the nails. Cutting though the nails is easier than prying. Years of being hit with a 4 pound hammer finally caught up with it a few days ago. It was A2. To my knowledge the only 3V Shivs that have ever broken were done intentionally in a vise with a cheater bar."
