Shokwood. Why not?

[on_the_edge]

I like the look of Shokwood on knives that are used in the field. It adds a unique look to the knife handles and of course no two are the same. However, I honestly don't see a lot of knife handles made with it. Why is that? Is it still too new? Is it just the passing flavor of the week so to speak? Or are there considerations in making or using a knife with a handle of Shokwood that I am overlooking? Of course, I am not just talking about only Shokwood, but any kind of handle material that is made up of a resin and natural wood combination.

 

[Salem Straub]

I don't know, speaking personally, maybe I don't like the idea of making a handle from a material that relies so heavily on the long-term strength of unreinforced resins. We all use micarta or G10 now and then, but those are fiber-reinforced laminates, and thus are quite strong.

There are even those with misgivings about the long term strength of the epoxies we all depend on heavily to attach handles, bolsters, and the like.

I do like the look of some ShokWood and ShockRes products, and some of the things like moneycarta, it's just the amount of clear resin space that I don't like.
I'm not too sure about the strength of much of the "mycarta" type home-brew laminates, either. True phenolic products, for instance, use high heat and pressure with thermosetting resins to achieve their levels of strength.

Just my $.02, perhaps I'm just misinformed or too conservative.

 

[Robert Erickson]

It is definitely cool looking stuff. I've been tempted but have avoided it because of a concern that there is a weak point at the junction of the resin and wood. Wood and resin will expand and contract at different rates and amounts and I'm concerned that gaps and failures will happen over time. I may be completely wrong but that's why I haven't used it yet. Maybe I am too conservative as well.

 

[Mahoney]

Salem nailed my biggest concern, how strong is the resin now with no fiber reinforcement and what will happen to it in 10, 20 or 50 years. I've seen a lot of plastic items fail or get brittle over time. As a knife buyer I'd prefer a handle material with a longer track record. And then there's the matter of the look of the material, it's the kind of thing folks will love or hate. Unless a customer requests it, making a knife on spec with a Shokwood handle might mean a knife that will stay in inventory a while waiting for just the right customer to come along.

 

[Tkrocky]

I have used it on many knives. This one that I have kept and tested for this reason.

It has held up wonderfully. I think the concerns above are definitely legitimate, but what I don't get is how people having so many concerns about it failing when they use things like end grain mammoth tooth or even just stabilized wood. Knife making material choice is all about compromise. Sometimes that compromise is between durability, aesthetics and weight. Every single knife doesn't have to be made out of g10 or micarta



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[Salem Straub]

Thanks for that post- nice knife too, by the way. Good to know that over the short term, it's working well on a user.

FWIW I'd never use mammoth tooth, or even ivory, on a field knife. I have learned the hard way, twice now, to limit use of stabilized burl woods to full tang knives only. Stabilized wood that I feel to be good and strong though, I'll use that all day long!

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

You don't see this material on high end/investment grade knives.

Chuck

 

[Tkrocky]

Thanks for that post- nice knife too, by the way. Good to know that over the short term, it's working well on a user.

FWIW I'd never use mammoth tooth, or even ivory, on a field knife. I have learned the hard way, twice now, to limit use of stabilized burl woods to full tang knives only. Stabilized wood that I feel to be good and strong though, I'll use that all day long!

Yeah this is exactly what I'm saying, Just gotta know when to use what!


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[Greenberg Woods]

You don't see this material on high end/investment grade knives.

Chuck

My thoughts on it. Yeah it looks kind of cool, but I've always thought it a little bit of a hot pink compared to a deep navy. One might seem really cool in the moment, but the classic wood is a time tested and standby look,I know will never go out of fashion

 

[kuraki]

I like it and like making it. But I don't make and likely never will make anything investment or heirloom grade.

 

[bodog]

I like it and like making it. But I don't make and likely never will make anything investment or heirloom grade.

I think "heirloom grade" is a little bit unnerving to most makers and possibly overrated as a term. I use two hammers, one carpenter and one small sledge, that were bought and used by my great grandfather, refaced by my grandfather, and rehandled by my father. I have a small ball peen that was my grandfather's that I don't use but will eventually rehandled. I have a classy but inexpensive 20 gauge shotgun that was given to me by my other grandfather that I learned to shoot with. I'll be passing that to my grandson. I have a small taylor slip joint knife that was given to me by an uncle when I was a kid. It was my first knife and it'll be passed on as well. None are particularly nice but they're all "heirloom" quality due to sentimental reasons rather than any collector or investment value. When I pass on I fully expect my kids and/or wife to sell most of my collectables without knowing what they're worth for pennies on the dollar. But the heirloom quality stuff will remain. Hopefully. Make it sturdy, make it classy without much ornamentation, make it repairable, and use the hell out of it. When you do, the stories and scars and sweat and stains that accompany the thing will mean much more than aesthetics or monetary value. Having said that, I think most of the stuff I've cobbled together could be heirloom quality without necessarily having any kind of investment value. They're tools that I hope the buyer can and will use for years to come and that can be resurfaced, rehandled, and maintained for generations without being anything other than a quality tool that was trusted and used by the previous generation.

Having said that, IMO, shokwood doesn't fit that bill so it's not for me. It is a pretty good looking material if done right. But I probably wouldn't pass a knife made with it to my grandson. I'd just sell it, give it to a friend, or end up losing it at some point.

Having said that, I'm not a knifemaker, just a guy toying around with a hobby. But I'm sure if you care about what you make you are probably already producing something that's heirloom quality if the guy you sell it to uses it and cares enough about it to pass it on.

 

[kuraki]

I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but you're not talking about the stuff Chuck is talking about, which is a sand box I'm content to stay out of, even if I had the skill to play in it.

 

[bodog]

I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but you're not talking about the stuff Chuck is talking about, which is a sand box I'm content to stay out of, even if I had the skill to play in it.

Sorry, you said investment grade and heirloom grade. Just wanted to say I believe they're two different things. I agree, I don't believe shokwood is good for either, though it's a fun material to look at. Maybe I misunderstood what you specifically were talking about

 

[kuraki]

Really expensive. That's all.

 

[Tim the Wizard]

You don't see this material on high end/investment grade knives.

Chuck

Carter uses shokwood and I would rate these as high end.

6.5 sun International Pro Series Freestyle Funayuki, Maple Shokwood w/ Brass Bolster - 189 grams

$915.00

Currently available at the Carter site. That's about as good as it gets in this class.

I have a shokwood edc and it has held up great. Certainly more durable than my hand which wraps around it.

If you would like real test information about the product simply contact the alumilite corporation.

It is the same material used for spruce cone scales and other resin based products which can be quite durable and handsome.

 

[on_the_edge]

I appreciate the great responses so far. If I am hearing everyone correctly, unknown durability is a huge issue. Will the difference in the expansion and contraction of the wood relative to the resin cause gaps or separation? Will be resin sustain long-term strength or will it become brittle over time?

The other concern seems to be that it may not withstand the test of time from an aesthetic point of view. In other words, it may just be a short-term fad that is not desirable in the future, or at least may be much less desirable than the traditional standby of beautiful wood or even some of the phenolic micartas or g10.

It seems like durability is a valid concern but mostly because it is an unknown. Nobody disputes the durability of elephant ivory yet people use it all the time and charge an arm and a leg for it despite the fact that if not cared for properly and carefully, it is prone to crack and/or shrink. Even beautiful and unique wood like snakewood is known to be and can easily become a headache in the long run. The flip side of the coin is that you can then take a wood that is normally good enough, such as Walnut, and put it on a knife and never have any issues with it though there are many woods that are going to outlast it yet which are seldom used as knife handles, like some of the fruitwoods.

I agree that there are trade-offs between durability, aesthetics, weight and workability of the material. Fortunately there are many choices and many of those are at least adequate. Hopefully, Shokwood will turn out to be one of those adequate options.

I also tend to agree with bodog about what constitutes an heirloom. However, I do think that Shokwood has the potential to be long-lasting and worthy of passing along (classy enough) to a grandchild for use in his / her lifetime. Whether someone likes something or not is always a matter of personal preference, i.e. beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe I'm not being realistic, but I would like to think that it would be more important to a grandchild that I used and valued a knife than what material the handle was made of or what color the handle might be.

I think I might give Shokwood a chance, perhaps fashion some easily removable scales for a knife blank just to see how it holds up over time. Hopefully I won't regret that decision. There's only one way to find out though.

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

Carter uses shokwood and I would rate these as high end.

Regarding this knife, questions are: will the knife sell, how long will the knife be available, what price will the knife bring on the aftermarket, will the handle material be used again?

People's definition of high end price varies. I think the price range starts at about $1,500 and goes up from there. Some of the knifemakers at this level are: Bob Kramer, Michael Rader, Devin Thomas, Dave Lisch, etc. Bob Kramer recently sold a chef's knife with engraving by Tom Ferry for more than $60,000. That knife definitely made the high end list!

Chuck

 

[bodog]

I would like to think that it would be more important to a grandchild that I used and valued a knife than what material the handle was made of or what color the handle might be.

:thumbup:

 

[Tim the Wizard]

Regarding this knife, questions are: will the knife sell, how long will the knife be available, what price will the knife bring on the aftermarket, will the handle material be used again?

People's definition of high end price varies. I think the price range starts at about $1,500 and goes up from there. Some of the knifemakers at this level are: Bob Kramer, Michael Rader, Devin Thomas, Dave Lisch, etc. Bob Kramer recently sold a chef's knife with engraving by Tom Ferry for more than $60,000. That knife definitely made the high end list!

Chuck

I appreciate your point of view. However, to the original intent of the thread, I think it is an interesting synthetic and should do well. Alumilite is sturdy and can be very beautiful.

 

[Randydb]

Look up burls on craigslist. I have found a number of old burl clocks and coffee tables for very little $ and turned them into knife handles and native american flutes. I had one maple burl coffee table that was intensely figured that would have made well over 100 1x2x5.5 blocks for $50. But it got turned into more flute blanks.