Simple Sharpening--Oil? Water? ... and which honing stones?

T

thunderstick

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Jan 15, 2007
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I prefer whetstones and I try to keep my medium stone relatively wet--meaning I wet it occasionally. I may or may not add water to it when touching up a bit or blade.

I realize we all may have elongated and more technical processes but what could you recommend for simple-straight forward-good enough-for the average user and typical task?

Keeping the process simple ... after initial profiling with my Sandvik files ... some favorite stones for honing my axes are:

Norton 8793 Sharpening stone--for roughin and quick touchups
Dan's Whetstone Company's Arkansas fine pocket stones for the final edge

In both cases the stones are used in a circular motion on the edge the way you would use a puck stone.

If you have or were to recommend a simple straight forward process what is it? Water or oil stones, and which particular stones would you recommend, and how would you use them?
 
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In the shop I switched to paper on a backing plate years ago. Norton stones were my favorites though.
 
Wouldn't a filed edge be a bit more prone chipping than a honed edge? For touch up it tends to remove more steel.
 
thunderstick said:
Wouldn't a filed edge be a bit more prone chipping than a honed edge? For touch up it tends to remove more steel.
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No. Rate of material removal is determined by the cut of the file and the pressure used. When you just need a light touch up and all you have is a file, you just use very low pressure. And what determines the edge strength is the geometry. A stone can make refining the polish of the edge easier due to its inherently slower rate of removal, but you don't end up with an inherently weaker edge as the result of filing. :)
 
I think an axe performs better, cuts a little deeper and releases a little easier if you at least hone out the file marks during sharpening. On tip from Old Axeman I bought a Norton Tradesman Utility Stone and a Norton Utility File. I go from metal files to the Norton file, then to the fine side of the utility stone. This is a fast easy way to get the file marks off your axe. It helps if you first remove coarse file marks with a fine file. I dunk the Norton's in a coffee can full of water periodically.

It's a lot of steps but each step goes very quickly. Honing with the big stones while your axe is still in the vise is the way to go.

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-Utility-File-P119.aspx
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-Tradesmans-Utility-Stone-P144.aspx
 
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This is the manner I sharpen when out cutting. I try to always carry a sharp ax with me but I at times hit items that will dull it. On those days
I have a fine file in my chainsaw tool-box that always goes with me when I go cutting and a 2"X 6" coarse/ fine India stone in it. Should my ax turn up dull, I use those items to tune it up. Starting with the file I work the edge bevel back and remove the flat spots. Then on to the coarse India oil stone. I apply a drop or 2 of the chain oil on the stone and work the edge scrubbing. Then on to the fine stone, now using a edge leading stroke to remove all burrs. And finish it off on that. Then clean the stone with a little gas on a toothbrush or wire brush & wipe. It doesn't take long, maybe 10-15 mins. and I enjoy the break. This will give a decent edge that will carry me thru that day's cutting. DM
 
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FortyTwoBlades said:
No. Rate of material removal is determined by the cut of the file and the pressure used. When you just need a light touch up and all you have is a file, you just use very low pressure. And what determines the edge strength is the geometry. A stone can make refining the polish of the edge easier due to its inherently slower rate of removal, but you don't end up with an inherently weaker edge as the result of filing. :)
Click to expand...

I suppose if you use a fine file lightly you may not remove more material than a stone. However I don't like the file serrations on a working edge because they tend to grab more sap and wood and eventually compromise the bite to a degree--so I would stone after filing which means I would end up removing more material. After initial filing of the geometry I seldom use a file again--I would only use it if I needed to reset the geometry. A fine file can work well for a scythe to *grab" types of vegetation which might tend to slide off a polished edge.
In my opinion a honed edge vs. a filed edge is a bit less apt to chip in harder wood because it is more polished and has less friction. It is less apt to build with sap because there are no fine serrations.

My comments on filing are not intended to imply that a filed edge is a structurally weaker edge but rather that is more prone to chipping because it has more friction on the bite and release which places more stress on the edge.
 
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I see a lot of good options coming out. Sometimes we focus more on bench sharpening than simple procedures which keep us working efficiently with field sharpening. I see some people really struggle in the field with the eye-hand coordination to free hand sharpen with minimal tools and fuss and keep moving.
 
David Martin said:
This is the manner I sharpen when out cutting. I try to always carry a sharp ax with me but I at times hit items that will dull it. On those days
I have a fine file in my chainsaw tool-box that always goes with me when I go cutting and a 2"X 6" coarse/ fine India stone in it. Should my ax turn up dull, I use those items to tune it up. Starting with the file I work the edge bevel back and remove the flat spots. Then on to the coarse India oil stone. I apply a drop or 2 of the chain oil on the stone and work the edge scrubbing. Then on to the fine stone, now using a edge leading stroke to remove all burrs. And finish it off on that. Then clean the stone with a little gas on a toothbrush or wire brush & wipe. It doesn't take long, maybe 10-15 mins. and I enjoy the break. This will give a decent edge that will carry me that day's cutting. DM
Click to expand...

I like the tip of a toothbrush and gas to clean the stone.
 
thunderstick said:
I suppose if you use a fine file lightly you may not remove more material than a stone. However I don't like the file serrations on a working edge because they tend to grab more sap and wood and eventually compromise the bite to a degree--so I would stone after filing which means I would end up removing more material. After initial filing of the geometry I seldom use a file again--I would only use it if I needed to reset the geometry. A fine file can work well for a scythe to *grab" types of vegetation which might tend to slide off a polished edge.
In my opinion a honed edge vs. a filed edge is a bit less apt to chip in harder wood because it is more polished and has less friction. It is less apt to build with sap because there are no fine serrations.

My comments on filing are not intended to imply that a filed edge is a structurally weaker edge but rather that is more prone to chipping because it has more friction on the bite and release which places more stress on the edge.
Click to expand...

A filed edge is not very good on a scythe. A toothy stoned edge is better, as it produces a better rake angle to the scratch pattern.

Note that I didn't in any way imply that a filed edge was superior to a stoned edge for an axe. Only that it's not going to be more prone to chipping. The friction is just going to be more "grabby" than with a polished bevel, but that's not going to make that edge more prone to chipping. The degree of refinement of the apex is what the stone is for, and it helps create a smoother and more effective push-cutting edge. But the mechanism by which a file removes material is not the same as a stone, and it's more like planing a bevel on a piece of wood vs. sanding one. The discussion was framed as "simple" methods, and I consider the most simple and versatile tool for that to be a file. It'll remove damage more effectively than a stone will, and can produce an edge that is well more than "good enough" if you know how to control the finish left behind by it. ideally one then polishes it up from there, for a variety of reasons, but being more prone to chipping isn't one of them--cutting efficiency is. Chipping is usually caused by side-loads on the edge, which most commonly occur when hitting something that is both small and hard, like a pitch-filled frozen knot, and this concentrates any misalignment of the bit with the stroke onto a very small area, which can then cause it to fail. It's a separate factor from filing vs. stoning an edge, and much more about the gross geometry that's been made, the conditions it's experiencing, and the heat treatment of the steel.
 
if i do anything beyond a filed edge, i go 220-1000-strop but iv only done that once or twice on axes that really demanded a razor edge
 
Forty-two
Our experiences may differ here. For a period of time I was in Ukraine and we needed to scythe some grass. Whatever specie of grass it was, my friend was not having much success with his stone. I took a file to the blade and it cut sweetly--so experiences and applications can differ on some points.

I don't think my experience would concur with yours on filing versus stoning an axe edge, but then again I asked for people's perspectives and I didn't expect them all to be the same. In fact I enjoy hearing new perspectives and learning--so I will receive yours in that fashion for further consideration.

Its obvious there is more than 1 way to achieve a working edge and sometimes we make it too complicated for beginners and perhaps make it too bench reliant.
 
thunderstick said:
Forty-two
Our experiences may differ here. For a period of time I was in Ukraine and we needed to scythe some grass. Whatever specie of grass it was, my friend was not having much success with his stone. I took a file to the blade and it cut sweetly--so experiences and applications can differ on some points.

I don't think my experience would concur with yours on filing versus stoning an axe edge, but then again I asked for people's perspectives and I didn't expect them all to be the same. In fact I enjoy hearing new perspectives and learning--so I will receive yours in that fashion for further consideration.

Its obvious there is more than 1 way to achieve a working edge and sometimes we make it too complicated for beginners and perhaps make it too bench reliant.
Click to expand...

As far as scythes are concerned, a lot depends on the particular stone that was being used. The edge of a scythe works best when it has a coarse scratch pattern with the bias angled towards the toe, but the edge must be crisp. Often those using a coarse stone will produce a ragged edge that is not properly trued up, or folks will use a fine stone that produces too fine a polish once the scratch pattern of the coarse stone has been erased. Similarly, it's possible that the edge had become rounded and thickened from honing and it was in need of peening to maintain the bevel, and the file was able to rapidly cut the cheeks off the edge to get it back down to a penetrating geometry. :)
 
plumberroy said:
I have an assortment of stones. I use 50/50 mixture of dawn and water as a lubricant
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Scent-free liquid laundry detergent works well. You can saturate the stone in it and then use a little splash of water to "activate" it when you go to use it if the soap has dried out. Laundry detergent is low-foam, so it won't obscure your work so much as dish soap will. :):thumbsup:
 
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