Sleeping with knives

The only 4 reasons to sleep with sheathed fixed blade knife in your hand are: living in war zone, living in ghetto or bad neighborhood, in tent in bear country, expecting a dawn raid by swat team!
So no I don't sleep with knife in hand!

But, for SD I have 5.5-6 inch fixed blade in sheath attached to bed frame for quick reverse grip draw, concealed but easy rapid access in the dark!
Multiple EDC's folders on nightstands on both sides of bed!

4-6 inch is ideal size for extreme CQC/B like lying on your back in bed with attacker above or on top of you.
Easy to maneuver one hand and more importantly no OVER penetration!
Last thing you want is impale attacker & yourself on long knife, human shish kabob style!
 
I have a 7inch kabar attached to my bed in a way that if someone were to come through my window, all I have to do is reach down pull the knife out of the sheath. The sheath stays stuck and out comes my kabar.
 
On the nightstand yes. Between the matress and frame yes. In my hand? No. That isnt to say i havent passed out with a knife in my hand but its not a common occurrence.
 
POCEH KOCEB said:
This is exactly what I do all the time when I watch movie or something.
I think they are the way to go this days. In 9mm +P they penetrate two walls with no insulation and will drop on the floor.
Good SD round, Barnes also got they own ammo, same load as CorBon, better casing and the bullets are coated just like the old BT :D
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I wouldn't bet on that if you live with others or live in an apartment etc. 9mm/40/45 JHP will sail through more then 4 layers of drywall easily (2 walls). Sometimes with JHP's the nose gets clogged up and it acts as a FMJ basically. There's plenty of tests online you can check out. Believe it or not the best home defense round in terms of least penetration is .223. To someone who isn't familiar with ballistics and bullet penetration but knows about .223 and other rounds, this may sound crazy but it is true. (Not saying you dont know, just making a general statement). There are a tons of different .223 rounds though, so it doesn't apply to all of them. Some rounds are made to penetrate, obviously those wouldnt be a good choice.

Here is a very good test you can read if you'd like. http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/test-parameters.html

Here are the results though ... Each "wall" has 2 layers of drywall, like real walls. The rows with red dots are .223 rounds obviously. Notice the rounds that penetrated the least were all .223, while nearly every other type of round penetrated into the 3rd wall, and some past the 3rd wall. He missed the 3rd wall with the 9mm 115gr JHP, but I assure you it would have most likely passed through the 3rd wall. 9mm having a higher velocity may penetrate less then .45 per say but just because it's a hollow point does not mean it will not penetrate. That is a very common misconception! .45 and 12g 00 buck both penetrated through all 3 walls (2 layers per wall remember) as well as other rounds. As I said some .223 did as well, but note that the right selection of .223 will certainly provide you with least penetration. This is due mostly to the extreme velocity of the round, as well as the design of the specific type of ammo. The slower rounds like .45 for instance don't hit with enough force for the round to fragment, so it has no problem penetrating far. The faster the round the more likely it is to break up and fragment upon impact, and the remaining fragments will not penetrate nearly as much as an intact round.

Of course some people wouldn't consider a rifle as an ideal home defense weapon, which is very understandable. But with short barreled AR pistols they are definitely something to consider, especially if someone is concerned with over penetration. The least penetrating round was .223, Winchester Ranger 64-grain Power-Point. Mostly due to the sheer velocity and fragmenting upon contact. Winchester Ranger 55-grain Softpoint also did well, only 1 fragment penetrated the first section of the 3rd wall. However Hornady 55gr TAP sailed right through all 3 walls just like .45, 00 buck, 7.62x39 etc. So ammo selection is critical.


penetration.jpg
 
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Converge said:
I wouldn't bet on that if you live with others or live in an apartment etc. 9mm/40/45 JHP will sail through more then 4 layers of drywall easily (2 walls). Sometimes with JHP's the nose gets clogged up and it acts as a FMJ basically. There's plenty of tests online you can check out. Believe it or not the best home defense round in terms of least penetration is .223...
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Converge, I did enjoy your post because most of it is true, principles and mechanics of penetration and so on. I did read the test from your link and I'm very familliar with most of the ammo used there.
There are some specifics that will not allow me to do general conclusions based on what I see done there.
In regard of your post, the only thing that I will disagree is to bet on internet tests...
As much as they are very good reference material and will give you relatively close to the reality idea how a specific round/bullet will behave,
shot from specific barrel, I tend to speak from my own experience and to rely on it.

In regard of the part of your post that I quoted:
I live only with my wife, not in apartment.
I shot numerous times my guns trough walls of house identical to mine - two internal drywall walls with and without sound insulation, metal beam structure.
9x19 124gr Brnes bullet loaded in CorBon ammo, shot from p226x5, 4' from the first wall, second wall 6'away, will not clog but will not open completely and will penetrate 2 walls (4 sheaths of drywall),
but will literally fall on the floor few feet away after the 2nd wall.

Winchester PDX and Barnes brand ammo in 124gr. Both shot from the same gun will not penetrate 2 walls.
Very often they will not able to go trough the 4th drywall and will stuck there, leaving a bulge but no penetration.
I would say there is a chance for someone to get hurt behind the 2nd wall but it will not be life threatening damage IMO.
115 gr. 9x19 FMJ white box Wally world ammo will drill easily trough two or maybe more walls, shot from G17.

.40smith FMJ Wincester Range ammo, shot from G22 will go trough basically everything... I shot a wall with a plasma TV on the other site,
the bullet left clean hole on all this and exited the room trough the window leaving 2" round hole...
Almost the same situation observed with .40smith with Gold Dot hollow point. I agree that they will penetrate more than two walls.

Didn't shoot .45acp in a house. Yet... :D
Didn't shoot also .380 (Beretta Cheetah) in a house but did plenty of shooting outside and I wouldn't carry such round for home defense, unless it is FMJ in heavier bullet I can find.

Not very familiar with .223 but very familiar with the mill surplus 5.45x39 :D
I would say: Unless it is a sbr, I would not use AR platform in home (nor AK), even it is my platform of choice over the AK flavors ( and I own AK)
I did not shoot .223 in home environment but shot enough outside and I find logic in what you are stating but still, if I have to use long gun it'll be my M590A1 loaded with Olin's MG buck.
I agree that if you live in apartment, you should get different ammo selection for the shotgun, for pistol ammo I'd go with the low recoil line, like the one Hornady carry.

In regard of knife for self defense, it's a long topic, all I can say is - knives don't jam, don't run out of ammo, are silent, and are deployed and ready to be used faster than any other weapon.
When you use them, you don't flinge and if you don't have formal training in most cases all you have to do is to position the knife between you and the attacker, tip towards him :D
It'll do it for me, within 10-15' distance that I will probably have to deal at home if my sweeper is out of commission for some reason... :D

I apologies for the off topic, even I enjoy such conversations, here isn't the right place for it.
 
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I am sleeping last 20 years with knifes under my pillow or in bed.Large high carbon steel custom Bowie knifes and Nepalese custom made Khukury.. wife hates this about me,but I can not help myself to take these large blades with me into bed...It become my habit.
 
POCEH KOCEB said:
Converge, I did enjoy your post because most of it is true, principles and mechanics of penetration and so on. I did read the test from your link and I'm very familliar with most of the ammo used there.
There are some specifics that will not allow me to do general conclusions based on what I see done there.
In regard of your post, the only thing that I will disagree is to bet on internet tests...
As much as they are very good reference material and will give you relatively close to the reality idea how a specific round/bullet will behave,
shot from specific barrel, I tend to speak from my own experience and to rely on it.

In regard of the part of your post that I quoted:
I live only with my wife, not in apartment.
I shot numerous times my guns trough walls of house identical to mine - two internal drywall walls with and without sound insulation, metal beam structure.
9x19 124gr Brnes bullet loaded in CorBon ammo, shot from p226x5, 4' from the first wall, second wall 6'away, will not clog but will not open completely and will penetrate 2 walls (4 sheaths of drywall),
but will literally fall on the floor few feet away after the 2nd wall.

Winchester PDX and Barnes brand ammo in 124gr. Both shot from the same gun will not penetrate 2 walls.
Very often they will not able to go trough the 4th drywall and will stuck there, leaving a bulge but no penetration.
I would say there is a chance for someone to get hurt behind the 2nd wall but it will not be life threatening damage IMO.
115 gr. 9x19 FMJ white box Wally world ammo will drill easily trough two or maybe more walls, shot from G17.

.40smith FMJ Wincester Range ammo, shot from G22 will go trough basically everything... I shot a wall with a plasma TV on the other site,
the bullet left clean hole on all this and exited the room trough the window leaving 2" round hole...
Almost the same situation observed with .40smith with Gold Dot hollow point. I agree that they will penetrate more than two walls.

Didn't shoot .45acp in a house. Yet... :D
Didn't shoot also .380 (Beretta Cheetah) in a house but did plenty of shooting outside and I wouldn't carry such round for home defense, unless it is FMJ in heavier bullet I can find.

Not very familiar with .223 but very familiar with the mill surplus 5.45x39 :D
I would say: Unless it is a sbr, I would not use AR platform in home (nor AK), even it is my platform of choice over the AK flavors ( and I own AK)
I did not shoot .223 in home environment but shot enough outside and I find logic in what you are stating but still, if I have to use long gun it'll be my M590A1 loaded with Olin's MG buck.
I agree that if you live in apartment, you should get different ammo selection for the shotgun, for pistol ammo I'd go with the low recoil line, like the one Hornady carry.

In regard of knife for self defense, it's a long topic, all I can say is - knives don't jam, don't run out of ammo, are silent, and are deployed and ready to be used faster than any other weapon.
When you use them, you don't flinge and if you don't have formal training in most cases all you have to do is to position the knife between you and the attacker, tip towards him :D
It'll do it for me, within 10-15' distance that I will probably have to deal at home if my sweeper is out of commission for some reason... :D

I apologies for the off topic, even I enjoy such conversations, here isn't the right place for it.
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Well that's even better then. Since you have first hand experience with the round then obviously you're good to go and very knowledgeable. You never know though, some of the stuff I've heard people say in regards to bullet penetration and different ammo types makes you really wonder where they heard some of it. Lots of people just think any hollow point wont even go through a single wall. One I hear a lot is that buck shot is the best HD choice because it doesn't penetrate walls..... wrong! Or they think a .223 round will go through 4 different houses on their block.....

Definitely agree with you it is always better to do your own tests, without a doubt. If I had my own property to shoot on, I know I would be doing tons of different tests like that, plus it would just be damn fun :D
 
Converge said:
Well that's even better then...
Click to expand...
:thumbup: My problem with rifle round shot from "pistol" setup is that 1.) it makes too much noise in home environment, and 2.) I don't have stock to take advantage of the whole "rifle" 3 points advantage that makes it much more aim-able as a system, compared to an SBR setup, and 3.) not to mentioned that you lose 7-10% of the bullet's velocity for every inch you lose from your barrel, so that round will not be so much of a high velocity round. Than what's the point of it and where are the (sort of ) guarantees that It'll break after the first barrier ? Of course those are relative values, it might happen, it might not, I don't know, I shot much more .556gt and 5.45 ammo than .223, there are small but important differences IMO.

...Man, this is a long ( and interesting at least to me ) topic and definitely not for a knife forum.
I had such long conversations in GT but I try to stay away from it here... :D
It was always amazing to me how people don't think about simple physics when they repeat over and over things that sounds credible, bullet penetration is one of those I guess...
I'm not an expert by any means. I read a lot and I like to take whatever I'm interested to the range and try it, this is it. Like to kill time watching videos, prefer doing it for myself if I want to find out something and if I have to ask specifics, I rather ask some of my friends and guys that I know, than digging in Internets :D
Anyhow, it was pleasure to talk with you Sir, I'd say, let's stick to the knifes now... :D
 
You don't ever have to worry about over-penetration with one of my CQ Indoor Problem Solvers...

 
Spyderco-man said:
I know this is a strange post, but I wanted to know if anyone else sleeps with a knife in their bed. Either under the pillow, on the nightstand, or in hand like I do. It's a bad habit, and my wife hates it.
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Aren't there other ways to negotiate out of a dry spell?

Seriously, no. I have several blunt implements near to hand, starting with a 3C LED Mag-Lite, but my first thought doesn't run to an edged tool.

Charlie Mike said:
Note the patch on my plate carrier :D

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Love the patch--is that a membership thing or do they sell them?

stabman said:
My bed is a whole whopping 18 feet from the door (apartment living, woohoo!). Twice either the landlord or maintenance tried entering unannounced, while we were asleep. Full adrenaline rush, fully awakened.
My wife ran and slammed the door shut before they could get it fully open, while I grabbed the nearest sword or huge knife on full rush to the door.

I don't worry about "Oh my God, how would I react if someone came through the door? EEK!!" Because I already know what would happen.

If you or other people would be sleeping through someone coming into your place, so zonked out to the outside world, then lay off the heavy drugs or anesthetizing levels of booze, man!
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You, sir, need a Buddy Bar for your door.
 
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lol errrmmmm, didnt have them in my bed, but last night I had my 18" condor el salvadore machete, and a spyderco manix2 next to my bed..
I dont think my girlfriend noticed the machete LOL
 
Almost fell asleep with a folder opened the other night in my hand. I realized to just let it go before drifting away in case I scratch my face or something.
 
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