I am looking to buy a carving/ slicing knife. I really don't know where to start. I own a 8" Global chef's knife that I love, but they don't offer a 10" slicing knife. This leaves me two options, either buy something like a yanagi-ba from Global, or find a new brand. So, what is best? Can a yanagi-ba be used for stuff other than fish? Is it worthy investment? Or should I find a new brand? I was looking at a MAC Professional 'super slicer' but I don't know if they're any good. What are your thoughts?
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Slicing Knife
- Thread starter Pernod
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If you are into Japanese kitchen knives, you should know this website:
http://japanesechefsknife.com/
For a slicing knife, I use and recommend the 300mm Hiromoto TJ-AS Sujihiki. Hattori and Masamoto make excellent ones also.
http://japanesechefsknife.com/
For a slicing knife, I use and recommend the 300mm Hiromoto TJ-AS Sujihiki. Hattori and Masamoto make excellent ones also.
nozh2002
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I can not really tell you much about slicing-carving knife, but I have authentic Yanagiba from Japan.
Yanagiba provides very small angle on the edge - this is what it is for. To be able to keep this angle for sharpening it has single bevel - to sharpen it you just drop it flat on the water stone and do not bother to keep angle - and it will be almost impossible to keep because it is too small.
So sharpening happen only from one side and only on water stones which does not form burr. Sharpening side of the blade made a bit concave so when you sharpen it laying flat it isnot whole side get affected by stone ut what is needed near edge and little part near spine.
I used Yanagiba as a knife for soft things, vegetables, fish, meat without bones (bones may damage delicate edge). Ity just fall into taget like through the air.
Thanks, Vassili.
fishface5
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Yanagiba is a very worthy investment if you buy from a good maker. Doc already posted a few good names. I can add Aritsugu, Watanabe, Takeda, Moritaka and there's many more. Few Yanagiba reviews.
As for the sharpening them, shinogi line is not the same angle as the bevel angle. And you should try to keep bevel angle.
Burr does form on Yabagibas and on Japanese knives it's pretty stubborn.
Backside of the Yanagibas and in general single bevel knives is called Urasuki, and it is indeed concave, helps with cutting and also with sharpening.
However, sharpening Yanagibas or any single bevel knife with Urasuki for that matter does happen from BOTH sides. Just urasuki needs less strokes, around 1:3 or 1:4, mainly to get rid of the burr.
Japanese Knife Anatomy illustrated.
Japanese knife terminology.
Japanese Kitchen Knife Types.
And finally, Sujihiki might be a better option to get started, it's double ground blade, so there will be no learning curve and it's designed for meat slicing/cleaning.
Around a year ago I was researching Sujihikis too and strangely enough most of the makers leave it rather soft, around 60HRC, even when the same makers take their Yanagibas all the way to 65HRC.
Watanabe on the other hand makes them same hardness, Aogami 1 steel, 63-65HRC. I got two from him and never had a problem with chipping.
Watanabe Sujihikis.
As for the sharpening them, shinogi line is not the same angle as the bevel angle. And you should try to keep bevel angle.
Burr does form on Yabagibas and on Japanese knives it's pretty stubborn.
Backside of the Yanagibas and in general single bevel knives is called Urasuki, and it is indeed concave, helps with cutting and also with sharpening.
However, sharpening Yanagibas or any single bevel knife with Urasuki for that matter does happen from BOTH sides. Just urasuki needs less strokes, around 1:3 or 1:4, mainly to get rid of the burr.
Japanese Knife Anatomy illustrated.
Japanese knife terminology.
Japanese Kitchen Knife Types.
And finally, Sujihiki might be a better option to get started, it's double ground blade, so there will be no learning curve and it's designed for meat slicing/cleaning.
Around a year ago I was researching Sujihikis too and strangely enough most of the makers leave it rather soft, around 60HRC, even when the same makers take their Yanagibas all the way to 65HRC.
Watanabe on the other hand makes them same hardness, Aogami 1 steel, 63-65HRC. I got two from him and never had a problem with chipping.
Watanabe Sujihikis.
nozh2002
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Waterdstone does not form burr on Shirogami - at least I never have it. Of course some may use grinding wheel or oil stones or diamonds which will form burr on any steel and Shirogami is not different in this matter from other steels - is it relatively soft metal hitting hard abrasive, but this is just ruining delicate edge.
Yanagiba is Yanagiba of course it is possible to use it as a regular kitchen knife, but this is not what it is about. Some may hammering nails with microscope...
So to have it right - it should be used as it meant to be used.
Interestingly - it did not shave hair after finest waterstone (below mircon for sure with mirror edge), but as I sad it fell through any vegetable just like through air.
Thanks, Vassili.
Yanagiba is Yanagiba of course it is possible to use it as a regular kitchen knife, but this is not what it is about. Some may hammering nails with microscope...
So to have it right - it should be used as it meant to be used.
Interestingly - it did not shave hair after finest waterstone (below mircon for sure with mirror edge), but as I sad it fell through any vegetable just like through air.
Thanks, Vassili.
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Or you have it and don't really notice it.
I don't use belt grinder, at least not for high hardness custom blades. Whetstones I used for shirogami and aogami steels are pretty good. Naniwa chosera, Kitayama, Aoto (both natural and synthetic), King, Besters...
If you have steady enough angle, then the fine burr forms even with 12K stone.
Like I said it's more of a problem to remove it properly.
I didnt' advocate usign Yanagiba as a regular kitchen knife, although that really varies fom person to person what they do to the regular kitchen knife. On the other hand, while I am not experienced enough to do that, really good Japanese chefs do tend to use Yanagiba or Sujihiki as their general purpose knife. Different parts of the blade for different cutting works. But as far as I can tell that takes 10-15 years to get there, being a pro chef....
I don't use belt grinder, at least not for high hardness custom blades. Whetstones I used for shirogami and aogami steels are pretty good. Naniwa chosera, Kitayama, Aoto (both natural and synthetic), King, Besters...
If you have steady enough angle, then the fine burr forms even with 12K stone.
Like I said it's more of a problem to remove it properly.
I didnt' advocate usign Yanagiba as a regular kitchen knife, although that really varies fom person to person what they do to the regular kitchen knife. On the other hand, while I am not experienced enough to do that, really good Japanese chefs do tend to use Yanagiba or Sujihiki as their general purpose knife. Different parts of the blade for different cutting works. But as far as I can tell that takes 10-15 years to get there, being a pro chef....
nozh2002
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Well, at first whetstones and water stones are different things.
Water stones required to be soaked in water and during sharpening it forms mud like substance on surface - they are very soft and carved out instead of bend edge under pressure to form burr - you need pretty good imagination to see burr on the edge in this case. This is what differ waterstones from other whetstones which in English simple means - sharpening stone.
Single bevel is used in Japan on several knives, not only Yanagiba (while of course double beveled knives dominate their market), but also Deba and even Japanese machete Nata. Reason is simple - easy to sharpen and it is always noted that to sharpen just drop this knife on water stone flat on one side and move - it will be enough.
For Yanagiba in particular using whetstones other then water stones will be just ruining delicate edge - it is very thin and need to be handled properly.
Of course it may be sharpened as any other knife and will continue to cut, but it will not be Yanagiba - just regular knife made out of Yanagiba.
Thanks, Vassili.
Water stones required to be soaked in water and during sharpening it forms mud like substance on surface - they are very soft and carved out instead of bend edge under pressure to form burr - you need pretty good imagination to see burr on the edge in this case. This is what differ waterstones from other whetstones which in English simple means - sharpening stone.
Single bevel is used in Japan on several knives, not only Yanagiba (while of course double beveled knives dominate their market), but also Deba and even Japanese machete Nata. Reason is simple - easy to sharpen and it is always noted that to sharpen just drop this knife on water stone flat on one side and move - it will be enough.
For Yanagiba in particular using whetstones other then water stones will be just ruining delicate edge - it is very thin and need to be handled properly.
Of course it may be sharpened as any other knife and will continue to cut, but it will not be Yanagiba - just regular knife made out of Yanagiba.
Thanks, Vassili.