So I broke a Cold Steel folder w/ CTS-XHP

Hmm I wonder how the this thread would go if I had thrown another knife in the mix where it survived and the Recon 1 broke. Though you guys keep saying things that I've already stated in the original post. I have batoned with a thinner blade just to see, and it held up perfectly. I've also batoned with a Spyderco Southard once upon a time for fun and it held up with flying colors. No lock up change or structural damage. It's also a hollow grind. I've already had some data points in mind which is why I went ahead and proceeded to thump on this knife. I would expect the heat treat to be more on the tough side to uphold their title of "toughest knives".

I'm surprised that you guys are so bent out of shape over this when I did admit that I'm not faulting the knife. Though I would expect it to handle pine, I'm glad I didn't try oak.

Besides, I spent my own dime on this. You didn't pay for this knife, so I'm wondering why folks are so upset over it. I'm surprised that it was replaced as well. I told them what I did and offered to pay for a replacement blade.

The mallet is used to straighten spines of my knives while I forge. It weighs about a pound. The face is plywood so it's quite squishy.
 
Who the hell would baton a folder through oak lol. I love this thread.
 
Hairlesstwinkie said:
Hmm I wonder how the this thread would go if I had thrown another knife in the mix where it survived and the Recon 1 broke. Though you guys keep saying things that I've already stated in the original post. I have batoned with a thinner blade just to see, and it held up perfectly. I've also batoned with a Spyderco Southard once upon a time for fun and it held up with flying colors. No lock up change or structural damage. It's also a hollow grind. I've already had some data points in mind which is why I went ahead and proceeded to thump on this knife. I would expect the heat treat to be more on the tough side to uphold their title of "toughest knives".

I'm surprised that you guys are so bent out of shape over this when I did admit that I'm not faulting the knife. Though I would expect it to handle pine, I'm glad I didn't try oak.

Besides, I spent my own dime on this. You didn't pay for this knife, so I'm wondering why folks are so upset over it. I'm surprised that it was replaced as well. I told them what I did and offered to pay for a replacement blade.

The mallet is used to straighten spines of my knives while I forge. It weighs about a pound. The face is plywood so it's quite squishy.
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Did you chew the blades up on those knives on a grinder, before "batoning" them as well?
 
I'm very disappointed to see that the blade snapped. That should not occur on a knife that is designed in such a way as to take heavy abuse and possibly be used in an emergency situation. When we purchase folders specifically for hard use and to withstand abuse, we make compromises in comfort, materials, price and weight. When those compromises are not rewarded with superlative performance and redundant strength, it calls into question why that knife was purchased in the first place, and if it is deserving of its reputation as a knife for extreme hard use and abuse. Thanks for posting your experience.

That said, I feel that your modification with the belt grinder did play a part in your blade snapping. Although you may not think you affected the blade's temper, the steel's thinner at the edge than it is anywhere else on the blade, so it is easier to mess up the temper there. You may also have caused tiny cracks in the steel in that area, which rapidly accelerated breakage. Judging from your photo, your blade did snap at the point where the serrations were ground off.
 
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asdf12345 said:
I'm very disappointed to see that the blade snapped. That should not occur on a knife that is designed in such a way as to take heavy abuse and possibly be used in an emergency situation. When we purchase folders specifically for hard use and to withstand abuse, we make compromises in comfort, materials, price and weight. When those compromises are not rewarded with superlative performance and redundant strength, it calls into question why that knife was purchased in the first place, and if it is deserving of its reputation as a knife for extreme hard use and abuse. Thanks for posting your experience.
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^^^this is exactly why CS replaced it. I do view this differently after knowing you have done the same with other folders and they performed just fine. IMO that, at the very least, makes this a viable reason to test this blade in the same manner. Hell, it's your knife. Throw the damn thing in the ocean for all I care. I do appreciate you posting pics, and this entertaining thread
 
I must admit I am surprised they replaced it. And impressed! I think they are opening the door to a potentially large headache but hopefully people wont take advantage of this.

I will add that a Recon 1 is lined up for my next purchase... the only problem is I cant decide between the clip or spear point. :p
 
ursamajor said:
Well, to be fair, it took more than a light finger press to get a failure.

[video=youtube;1jffqjjm-q0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jffqjjm-q0[/video]
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So, for every thread that mentions Cold steel or ZT or "hard use" or knives, we are going to do this argument again?
 
Every manufacturer, of knives or any other product, have the occasional defect or failure. It happens. Those that stand by their products, like Cold Steel and KAI Industries USA, are the good ones.

For myself, if I were inclined to baton with a folder, I'd have waited for the BD1 Voyagers. According to Cold Steel's representative on the board that stuff is even tougher than AUS8 at the hardness they're using. XHP is a pretty tough steel though.

I'm not a hard user of knives. From my perspective each one cost me too much (even a $16 Tuff Lite) to do more than cut stuff with so I won't be abusing mine.
 
Hairlesstwinkie said:
If you guys are part of some of the FB groups, y'all might have seen this. I didn't intentionally break this knife. I was just thumping on it for fun since I figured if a folder can take this kind of abuse, it'll be a Cold Steel, but it broke way earlier than I had thought. You can tell how much wood got through in the picture. The board the blade is laying on is the block of wood that I was trying to baton through. I did grind down the serrations and the wood is pine. The mallet is made of plywood and pine. When the blade broke, the spine was parallel to the ground. Triad Lock is awesome without a doubt. It's a very well designed lock, but the blade I'm not so sure. I've heard people being able to baton with triad lock knives and they make it out so I wanted to see for myself. I was a little disappointed, but Cold Steel did replace my knife which is awesome. Now, I'm completely aware that this is knife abuse. I know that you don't baton folders. I'm not saying that it's the knife's fault for break, but I am saying that I expected better.

Untitled by Hairlesstwinkie, on Flickr
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DShiflet said:
THAT is your baton? When you're not batoning folders with it, are you using it to battle Loki for control of Asgard?
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I wonder if he carved that "baton" with his Recon 1 before using it to destroy it?

Cold Steel- Strong enough and sharp enough to carve Mjolnir out of enchanted wood! Just don't expect it to stand up to the Mighty Hammer of Thor!

After all, it was Mjolnir and not the wood that he was batoning through that snapped that blade. I still plan on buying an American Lawman, of course I won't be using any mythological weapons to pound it through treated wood. Damn, the Tri-Ad really is a strong lock!
 
It's the blade that failed, not the lock, so the fact that it's a folder is irrelevant. The question is, "Should I expect a hollow-ground blade that's a little over an eighth-of-an-inch thick to split treated lumber?"

Personally, I wouldn't expect that of most fixed-blades with similar dimensions, regardless of the grind. When I use a slender fixed-blade with a baton, I limit myself to wood that's only 1-2" in diameter. I'm also careful to select wood that's relatively easy to split and void of big knots.

That's my take on the matter. Having said all of this, I'd still be interested in seeing how an AUS-8A Recon 1 would perform on the same piece of wood, just for curiosity's sake.
 
DShiflet said:
THAT is your baton? When you're not batoning folders with it, are you using it to battle Loki for control of Asgard?
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Right. There's no reason just to hammer away at it - a little forethought goes a long way. I'll bet that knife could've handled this just fine and it accomplishes the same thing:

[video=youtube;gy8j21aWlqg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy8j21aWlqg[/video]
 
Kels73 said:
It's the blade that failed, not the lock, so the fact that it's a folder is irrelevant. The question is, "Should I expect a hollow-ground blade that's a little over an eighth-of-an-inch thick to split treated lumber?"

Personally, I wouldn't expect that of most fixed-blades with similar dimensions, regardless of the grind. When I use a slender fixed-blade with a baton, I limit myself to wood that's only 1-2" in diameter. I'm also careful to select wood that's relatively easy to split and void of big knots.

That's my take on the matter. Having said all of this, I'd still be interested in seeing how an AUS-8A Recon 1 would perform on the same piece of wood, just for curiosity's sake.
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NUTNFANCY Pounded on an AUS8A one, with his usual horrible technique, and it withstood it, with no ill effects to blade or lock.

But I would be curious to see this knife tested, without a hack-job modification to the blade myself. The thing did snap where the OP ground the serrations off.
 
ursamajor said:
NUTNFANCY Pounded on an AUS8A one, with his usual horrible technique, and it withstood it, with no ill effects to blade or lock.

But I would be curious to see this knife tested, without a hack-job modification to the blade myself. The thing did snap where the OP ground the serrations off.
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Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember that video. Did NUTNFANCY split treated lumber or a piece of kindling?

I understand your point though. According to Carpenter, XHP is like a stainless version of D2. That suggests that it should be relatively tough. The problem with "tests" like this is that they really don't prove anything because there are so many variables that you can't draw any intelligent conclusions. For instance, with a hammer that big, coming in at the wrong angle is all that it would take to snap the blade, especially if the wood is already placing lateral pressure on the steel. And then there's the removal of the serrations...

Yeah, I'll hold judgment in suspense. My XHP Recon 1 will be here in a few days, and I can't wait.
 
Kels73 said:
Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember that video. Did NUTNFANCY split treated lumber or a piece of kindling?

I understand your point though. According to Carpenter, XHP is like a stainless version of D2. That suggests that it should be relatively tough. The problem with "tests" like this is that they really don't prove anything because there are so many variables that you can't draw any intelligent conclusions. For instance, with a hammer that big, coming in at the wrong angle is all that it would take to snap the blade, especially if the wood is already placing lateral pressure on the steel. And then there's the removal of the serrations...

Yeah, I'll hold judgment in suspense. My XHP Recon 1 will be here in a few days, and I can't wait.
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https://youtu.be/FjfnRfyHAs4

Cut in at 16:16
 
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