So is 420 steel worth having ?

M

Magilicutty

Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Messages
6
I read this FAQ:
http://www.knifeart.com/steelfaqbyjo.html

.......
"420 Lower carbon content (<.5%) than the 440 series makes this steel extremely soft, and it doesn't hold an edge well. It is used often for diving knives, as it is extremely stain resistant. Also used often for very inexpensive knives. Outside salt water use, it is too soft to be a good choice for a utility knife."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Based on this I feel as though I should sell or trade my Ken Onion Chive and Scallions for something better.

A. I don't dive
B. Its too soft to be a good choice for a utility knife

If these are not utility knives then what the heck are they for? Stabbing people at very soft tissue areas such as eyeballs etc....?
 
I wouldnt worry about it. There is a difference between 420J2 and 420HC and other grades of 420.

I would bet that the explanation you quoted is for 420J2 which companies like United use alot.

Buck, Kershaw and others use 420HC which actually makes a decent knife steel. Its not top-of-the-line by any stretch of the imagination, but it holds a reasonable edge and resharpens easy enough.

Have you used your knife? People are to quick to judge based on what they read. You might like your knife, then somebody says the steel is crap and automatically you start worrying about your knife. Instead of wanting to get rid of it based on what is written, why not go use it and see for yourself whether its suitable for you.
 
Now if your talking about 420J2 that stuff is good for making folder locks/liners but as a using steel for the blade itself?:barf: :barf:


I agree with Richard's assesment of 420HC. You can get 58 HRc out of it and it holds a decent enough edge but it's no super steel by any stretch.
 
Have you even try cutting quite extensively with your Kershaw? 420HC with a right heat-treat can be quite an excellent cutter.
I was a bit spooked when I tried the scallion and figure it was 420HC.
 
My 420HC Kershaw Scallion and 420HC Camillus Arclite act alot like 440A to me, courtesy of extremely good quality heat treats from both companies. I wouldn't be hesitant to buy a well-designed, well-ground knife because it was 420HC, besides, it sharpens up real nice and easy (unlike 440V... *grumble*)
 
I've had two chives (gave one away) and they both cut extremely well for a knife that size.

It could have been made with a higher end steel but that would compromise ease of sharpening. 420HC works well in these knives for me and makes it less of a task to sharpen...especially with that recurve...
 
Nah, your knife sucks, get rid of it. I'm kidding of course.

Since you HAVE a 420 blade, why not try using it instead of asking us. 420 is not a great steel. But whether your particular knife is good enough for your needs can only be answered by yourself.
 
A while back I used to own a few knives with 420 blades. One or two of them even used 420J2. They were all OK knives as far as I was concerned. Then I started reading reading about how bad a steel 420 was and I have never bought a knife that uses it since. I still have a couple of those old knives and you know what? They still seem to work pretty well.

I guess what I am trying to say is, don't let the opinion of others be the sole determiner of whether something is good or not. Using these opinions to help guide you is all right, but try things for yourself. That is the only way you are going to be able to formulate your own opinions. When all is said and done, if you buy a knife with a 420J2 blade and you like it, does anybody else's opinion amount to a hill of beans?

That being said, I have discovered through the use of many knives that I like many other steels better than those in the 420 series. Most of which are not of the stainless variety.
 
Has anybody but me wondered why Kershaw would take a nice design like that and use mediocre steel in the blade? Why not AUS8A at least?
 
Danbo,

price point.

I remember discussing this with Will Fennel of Camillus Cutlery by asking him a similar question applying to the CUDA Arclite. 420HC can be blanked out, as opposed to laser cut. Because of this, 420HC can be VERY cheap to mass produce, but is still better than 420 or 420J2, as far as I know, 420HC is the best stainless steel that can be blanked.
 
Youngcutter, that is the point I was trying to make also. Some factories make a point to tell everyone that they use AUS8A instead of something like ATS34 or BG42, because the 8A can be fine blanked and is easier to heat treat. It just seems cheesy to me to go that low on the steel quality, when 8A could be used.
 
Well....seeing as I am not a metallurgist, I believe that a metal blade is better than one made of wood. A steel blade of any number is better than a blade made of tin or aluminium. HAHAHAHAHA. Stainless Steel is Stainless Steel, let's not get hung up on names......420, 440, ST34, grp4445, pkyt6789 etc. who cares!!!!! If you like the knife use it!!!! I have cheap POS knives that I use for errr...ummmm....the jobs I don't want my premium knives to do...and you know what? They do just fine and they are easy to sharpen!!!!!
 
And yes, the steel is worth keeping, especially as relates to the 2 pieces you currently own. Two more excellent choices in this material are the CUDA ArcLite and EDC. Easy to maintain and cut just fine.

Now quit worryin' and get to cuttin'!
 
Don't get caught up in steel snobbery.
Alot of the "new super-steel" is just marketing hype to sell more knives.
Don't get me wrong, VG-10 is better than 420, but if you are just going to use your knife for light duty tasks (sheet paper, plastic bags, string, ect) then you will experience no significant difference between the two steels.
The Chive and the Scallion are small knives designed for small tasks, so the steel is totally appropriate.

I'm sometimes amazed that some folks will demand a premium steel (and pay a hefty price) for a knife that will only be used to cut loose threads from their clothes and open letters.

There are plenty of great knives out there that still use low-grade steel: Victorinox and Wenger Swiss Army Knives, Schrade Uncle Henry knives, Boker, and Case, just to name a few.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
there are good steels and bad

420 is bad:barf:

snobbery is like saying 440c is way better than ats 34 there not a hell of a lot of difference there.

but a bad 420 is a bitch to sharpen in the field.

I had a gerber caper! excellent design perfect ergonamics but it sucked to sharpen. while I was field dressing a deer I had to work that edge a few times and it just didn't work as well as some carbon knives I have had and used.
 
I may be wrong, but I believe the Gerber Capers were made from M2 high speed tool steel. Maybe this could explain the difficulty in sharpening? M2 is often 62 Rockwell.
 
danbo this gerber was purchased in 1990 for $50 new. I would be surprised if that was M2 back then. plus it is bead blasted like the LMF, which is 420.

but if so I will get that knife back asap! just kidding.


carbon steel is cheap and better than stainless in MY opinion and will always prefer it.
 
I wouldn´t buy a 420J2 blade, ´cuz it´s just too soft. Yep, it resharpens easily, but I simply want a steel with a better edge holding capability.
AUS-6 and 420 HC are OK for me, but I wouldn´t want less carbon content in a knife steel.
 
I believe I got my Gerber(a little Bird and trout model) about that time, from Cutlery Shoppe as a closeout. It was M2, and it was a bear to sharpen!
 
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