so tell me about planer knives

N

Nebulae

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Aug 24, 2009
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what are planer knives used for, are they solid HSS, and are they fully hardened (not just the edge), and how hard are they?

As you Might be able to guess I intend to make my own knives out of them. And before anybody says "why dont you just get a bar of 10XX it will be much cheaper and easier"-its not cheaper or easier. I can get three, 8"x1"x1/8" T1 planer knives for $26 that is what it would cost me to send out one knife for heat treatment, not to mention buying the premium steel. and they are already cut to the size I need

sorry to pick your brains again, but its summer now and I am making knives more:D:D:D:D
 
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As with most things, it's going to depend on what brand you get. My guess is that if you're buying new ones there will likely be a description of what they are made from on the box/packaging. If you question isn't answered on the box/packaging I would suggest looking up that brand on the internet to see if you can find more information.

As a side note, some food for thought that you've said you don't want to hear:
You're forgetting the price of more sand paper to shape the blade (can't use normal files on hardened steel), the cost of working with something that's already sharp (you'll pay for more bandages, or super glue), the time spent shaping hardened steel, the pain of having to keep the blade cool while rough shaping, etc. So I wouldn't necessarily say it's cheaper to use planer blades, but of course if some of those aren't concerns to you then go ahead. The advantages of a 10xx known steel are more than just monetary ones though.
 
yes your right it is a PITA to grind, but since its a HSS (18% W) heat build up wont be a problem. It will eat through my belts though, that is true (btw what kind of belts should I be using to grind hardened steel), but I'm only making them when I feel like carrying a new knife so its not like I'm turning out dozens of knives a month. not only that allot of places wont heat treat it right. Some HSS need soak temps upwards of 2200 F.

Sorry, I dont mean to be curt, but I want to nip this argument in the bud, I have given this allot of thought.
 
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My dad made a nice tanto style knife out one several years ago.I will see if I can find it and post a pic and some info on how he done it .
 
Don't worry I didn't think you were being curt, and I don't mean to start a fight just provide food for thought, hence the "... of course if some of those aren't concerns to you then go ahead."

As far as belts are concerned, I'm a relative newbie myself so hopefully someone else more knowledgeable will chime in.
Fresher belts build up heat a lot slower than dull ones do. However, using a fresh belt on sharp edges, like corners, is a great way to turn it into a dull one quickly. So I suppose that doesn't tell you which belts, but they're useful things to keep in mind to get the most out of your belts and keep the steel at the temperature you want.
 
I'm probly gonna get a carbide drill bit and drill all my holes that size. does it come with holes? like one on each end?
 
so you still think the cost of carbide drills, all the additional sandpaper and special files, not to mention the cost of belts, will not be more then simply buying a known steel?

Lets see:

Carbide drill bits (very fragile, break easily) $20 each
Belts $3-6 each.

Have fun!
:rolleyes:
 
I am not having this discussion. I have already made up my mind. And as Destraal said "more than just monetary ones [reasons]" I really dont want to send out my blades for heat treat, I want to do it all myself. (for now at least, this will probably change if I get more serious)
 
In my experience the edge on HSS will not hold up when ground to edges more accute than 30%, typically knives are ground to about 20%. I have a tool sharpening shop and the stuff is laying around all over the place here, I thought I would try it out on some knives (didn't cost me anything) The edges kept blowing out. If you would still like to try, PM me your address and Paypal me $5.00 for shipping I will send you some.

To answer your original questions, some of them are solid HSS and some are not, it would say when you order, the are used in wood power planers in wood shops. The ones that are solid HSS will be uniformly hardened throughout.
 
I made my HSS knife from an old hacksaw blade, M2 HSS, and I started with 24 grit zirconia belts, then 80, 120, 180. I haven't been able to find anything finer. I'm just doing 10 degree/side Scandinavian style grinds all the way to the edge, so I'm not removing a huge amount, like you would if you wanted a full flat grind. If you are doing a full flat, you'll go through a huge number of belts if you use a 1x30 sander like I used. If you have a bigger/more powerful grinder it shouldn't be as bad. If you don't, you could try an angle grinder or maybe a bench grinder with some good wheels.

Planer knives are used for rotary wood planers, so they are intended to cut wood at high speed. Some are solid HSS, but you'd have to check the packaging or manufacturer's website to be sure. Some will have holes in them, others won't, it depends on brand and the type of planer they are intended to work with. Where are you getting these for such a good price? I wouldn't worry too much about the naysayers. They're your knives, make them how you want. A word of advice after trying to drill HSS: learn to make stick tangs.:rolleyes: If T1 is as good as M2 or M4, you'll have some excellent knives.

PS: I've seen people on youtube buy M2 or M4, not really knowing what they were getting into. What they bought was annealed. They then tried to use a torch to harden it. I suppose once you've paid for it, you might as well try, but that seems a complete waste for M2. If you want to try HSS for just a couple of knives, your way is the way to go.
 
wait a minute, M4 is a HSS, and it is used in most competitive cutting knives, prescicly because it can support a really thin edge. And hold it for a while too. in fact I think M4 is quit well known for its sharpness and small edge angle


Mark: thank you for your kind offer but I would rather get the ones I have already picked out. you see I know exactly what I am gonna do with that size and everything

spend some time on the internet. I'm kinda obsessive compulsive about finding the best price
http://globaltooling.bizhosting.com/products/knives-planer/t1-hss-planer-knife-sets.html
these appear to be on sale
http://www.aparfreud.com/
 
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Mark Knapp said:
In my experience the edge on HSS will not hold up when ground to edges more accute than 30%, typically knives are ground to about 20%. I have a tool sharpening shop and the stuff is laying around all over the place here, I thought I would try it out on some knives (didn't cost me anything) The edges kept blowing out. If you would still like to try, PM me your address and Paypal me $5.00 for shipping I will send you some.

To answer your original questions, some of them are solid HSS and some are not, it would say when you order, the are used in wood power planers in wood shops. The ones that are solid HSS will be uniformly hardened throughout.
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Do you know what kind of HSS it was? I've dug holes in wood, drop tested my point, and batoned with a 4 lb hammer with no damage to the knife, and only dulling on the drop test. Wood just doesn't seem to phase it. Admittedly, it is very light, so dropping it is not really that much of a test.
 
Me2 stick tangs present their own challenges, such as thinning down the width of material.
 
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me2 said:
I made my HSS knife from an old hacksaw blade, M2 HSS, and I started with 24 grit zirconia belts, then 80, 120, 180. I haven't been able to find anything finer. I'm just doing 10 degree/side Scandinavian style grinds all the way to the edge, so I'm not removing a huge amount, like you would if you wanted a full flat grind. If you are doing a full flat, you'll go through a huge number of belts if you use a 1x30 sander like I used. If you have a bigger/more powerful grinder it shouldn't be as bad. If you don't, you could try an angle grinder or maybe a bench grinder with some good wheels.

Planer knives are used for rotary wood planers, so they are intended to cut wood at high speed. Some are solid HSS, but you'd have to check the packaging or manufacturer's website to be sure. Some will have holes in them, others won't, it depends on brand and the type of planer they are intended to work with. Where are you getting these for such a good price? I wouldn't worry too much about the naysayers. They're your knives, make them how you want. A word of advice after trying to drill HSS: learn to make stick tangs.:rolleyes: If T1 is as good as M2 or M4, you'll have some excellent knives.

PS: I've seen people on youtube buy M2 or M4, not really knowing what they were getting into. What they bought was annealed. They then tried to use a torch to harden it. I suppose once you've paid for it, you might as well try, but that seems a complete waste for M2. If you want to try HSS for just a couple of knives, your way is the way to go.
Click to expand...

I don't know how old your power hack saw blade was, but the ones that I can get from my supplier (I am a lenox distributor) and all other brands I know of are only HSS for sixty thousandths of an inch on the tips of the teeth, so when you ground off the teeth you removed all of the HSS and were left with the spring steel body, they make OK knives. This has been true for at least the last 15 years. Prior to that they were full bodied high carbon. Did the blade say "Bi-metal"? I can only speek for my experiences using HSS on thinly ground blades, I am sure it performs well when ground thicker, the stuff is tough, has to be. Anyway have fun with it.
 
Mark, he is talking about power hacksaw, not band saw. band saws only have HSS ofn the tips of the teeth like you said, but power hacksaw blades come in solid fully hardened HSS they also come a bit thicker .1" I think
 
I don't know how old either. I got it from a fellow forumite, who I understand got it from a distributor on rec.knives. It was marked "high speed steel" and said nothing about bi-metal. I tried a lennox saws-all blade, and it was indeed as you say. The rust/patina on mine shows no sign of edgewire being welded on. These are shaped differently, and would fit a regular hacksaw frame if you had one big enough. It was 1" wide, 0.055" thick and 12" long, with holes at each end. I have another that is ~1/8" thick, 1.75" wide and 24" long, marked the same way. If you look on line, you can find fully hardened mechanical hacksaw blades, but they aren't cheap. Actually they are ~$10 each, but you have to buy a pack of 10.
 
Give someone like woodcrafters a call if you want to look at planer knives. They sell the equipment so would assume they sell the blades. Your in Houston and there is one at the northwest corner of W FM 1960 and the north freeway. That would possibly eliminate shipping costs.

If the cost of heat treat is an issue you can also look at stainless. Texas Knifemakers is in Houston also at Haddington and the beltway. Heat treat for steel like ats34 runs $5 and the steel is not that expensive either.
 
Nebulae said:
Mark, he is talking about power hacksaw, not band saw. band saws only have HSS ofn the tips of the teeth like you said, but power hacksaw blades come in solid fully hardened HSS they also come a bit thicker .1" I think
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Yeah, I am talking about power hacksaw blades, I buy and sell them quite a bit. Maybe someone makes one that is all HSS, I have just never seen one. I haven't seen everything, don't know everything. Have fun with your project.
 
Give someone like woodcrafters a call if you want to look at planer knives
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that is a good Idea. then I can see if it is gonna be the right thing or not.


so now here is a question should I get the three 8x1x1/8 blades for $26, or four 15x1&3/16x1/8 for $65 (comes out to about the same $/in). I would like the extra width, and being able to choose how long my knives are could be a plus but its gonna be tough to cut. the only thing I could use would be a dremel cut off wheel.

thanks Mark, and everybody you've been good to me.
 
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