Sourcing small quantities of boric acid for heat treatment

Joined
Jul 10, 2021
Messages
85
I haven't yet tried Clickspring's heat treatment method of suspending the piece in a wire cage packed with boric acid. The blocks are other projects and a desire to not get a huge amount of boric acid that I can't possibly use up. So I looked at roach powders. The label for "Hot Shot MaxAttrax" from Home Depot says 99% boric acid and 1% "other". It's one pound for a bit less than US$3. Perfect, and cheap! There's also the same weight of "Enoz Roach Away" with the same ratio and is much more expensive at almost US$11. The SDS for Hot Shot didn't reveal what the 1% was. The SDS for Roach Away said that it's perlite. This make sense because if crushed to a powder, it makes for killing roaches. Diatomaceous earth is a powdery substance that also kills roaches too, which is why I think Hot Shot doesn't disclose its 1% -- it could change depending on whatever. There are other powdery substances that can substitute.

Would any of these silica-containing substances be of concern when using these roach powders for heat treatment? Has anyone here tried using roach powder like this or have any stories about the same?
 
I think either will work just fine and the 1% won't be an issue.
I've heat treated loads of carbon steel blades in a propane forge with boric acid, inspired by Clickspring, and always got very clean results, often just a little scale along the blade edge.
I didn't use his wire cage method, I just got the blades hot, say 300°C+ and sprinkled the boric acid on with a sifter until it formed a complete skin.
Just beware that it makes sticky glassy mess in your forge when hot.
 
The boric acid melts and coats the blade with boron glass. That is all that is happening to prevent scale.
The iron wire binding around the blade was an old way of getting more even heating with a primitive or makeshift forge. Most any knife forge doesn't need the wire wrap.
Also, a properly tuned forge with a neutral to slightly reducing atmosphere won't severely scale up the blade.
Beware that the boric acid on the forge floor will slowly eat away the lining. You have to put in a flux resistant floor or kiln shelving which can be replaced.

A proper anti-scale compound like Brownell's, ATP-64,1 or Turco II is a better choice. Turco II is probably the best anti-scale, but costs near $100 a quart now.

Mixing some satanite into a melted milkshake consistency and coating the blade is just about the simplest reliable method of doing anti-scale on a budget.
I am told pottery slip or a clay slurry works just as well.

Folks are also experimenting with Blaster Extreme graphite spray as an anti-scale with good results.

My "HT Paint" mix is a homemade blend to imitate Turco II. It makes a pretty good anti-scale/decarb shield for HTing blades in a forge. I haven't done it yet but adding some powdered graphite or powdered charcoal may improve it.

This recipe isn't as critical as baking a cake, and I adjust the ingredient ratio a bit every time I mix a new batch. Most of the times, I up the ochre or satanite to get the thickness I like.

10-oz boric acid (roach powder is fine)
6oz borax (20 mule team is fine)
6oz satanite (our old refractory friend)
8oz yellow ochre/ocher (any color ocher should work)
6oz gum tragacanth (I use dry powder, but an 8oz. bottle of leather edge dressing will do in a pinch, just eliminate most of the water below)
16oz denatured alcohol (the cheap paint store variety, not the expensive drug store stuff)
water

Mix the first five ingredients and, add the alcohol until it becomes a well-mixed thick paste (you may not need all 16oz). Add water until it becomes a medium-thick slurry (It needs some water to allow proper hydration and solution of some ingredients).
Try it on a piece of clean scrap steel to check bonding results, and adjust the ingredients as needed. More satanite increases bonding. More alcohol if it is still too thick.
Keep in a tightly capped container, away from heat. A tall wide moth screw top plastic jar is a good storage and coating container. A screw top bed urinal is perfect

Shake well each use, and paint it on the blade with a small brush, or dip the blade and let the excess run back into the container.
The blade should be sanded, cleaned, and have no oils on it. Coat the blade with a nice layer of your "ochre HT paint".
A batch should last for a long time. Add some alcohol if it gets too thick or dry. Add more ocher or satanite to make it thicker.

Let the coated blade dry before HT. You can hold it near the dragon's breath to speed up drying, but slower is better.
Do not use above 1600F as the borates will become corrosive.

I buy the ocher, boric acid, and gum tragacanth on Amazon/eBay. I buy the ProCraft 8oz bottles of ochre, a 1-pound jar of 99.9% anhydrous boric acid, and a 6oz. bottle of tragacanth. Everything else is in the shop already.
 
Just to chime in with an alternative, I’ve had really good results using NuClayer systems 2000 clay for preventing scale or decarb in a kiln/forge for heat treating. It’s water based and natural so it’s really easy to apply and clean and relatively inexpensive, I believe it’s about $30 for a 16oz jar from Popsknifesupply. It also won’t potential damage your forge lining.
 
The critical bit here is that my forge, a two-brick deal, is not yet complete for a variety of reasons. I don't want to spend $30 on a jar or bag of whatever, but I can easily spend $3 on roach powder to try Clickspring's technique. My plan is to replicate his technique exactly: put the piece (a spring) into a loose iron wire basket, press in and onto it a paste of boric acid (roach powder) and alcohol, put the thing in a corner made of hard firebricks, and heat it with a blowtorch. No forge will be touched with the glassy mess. Quench in oil and polish off any crud. Then heat to a light blue and allow to cool at room temperature. If all goes well, I'll have a spring that won't snap like the original one of stainless steel did.
 
Agreed, it will work. I was giving some alternatives that work good for many folks.

Josh, NuClayer is awesome for hamons. I am sure it would work as an anti-flux. It is a bit pricey for that purpose. I see it is back in stock now.
 
Boric Acid 99% can be had as "Cockroach Killer" in many "Dollar Stores" i used to buy it there and mix with "Borax" for forging Damascus billets back in the day..
worked just fine .. i never had to "Order" it or the Borax , just drive to a couple stores and have flux that day..
 
i never had to "Order" it or the Borax , just drive to a couple stores and have flux that day..

Man, that must be nice! I live way out in BFE TX, the closest hardware store to me is 1 1/2 hour drive from my house!!
 
Man, that must be nice! I live way out in BFE TX, the closest hardware store to me is 1 1/2 hour drive from my house!!
see we can be jealous of each other .. id love peace and quiet and plan my trips to "Town" to get things..
you might not like living in a city like Portland where Crime is now very high and you can not defend your own property..
 
see we can be jealous of each other .. id love peace and quiet and plan my trips to "Town" to get things..
you might not like living in a city like Portland where Crime is now very high and you can not defend your own property..
I'm originally from WA, a small town near Tacoma, so I feel your pain.

At least ya'll de-funded those awful police! you know the ones that catch criminals? Yeah. Don't need any of them! (Says the cop, with a giant eye-roll)
 
I'm originally from WA, a small town near Tacoma, so I feel your pain.

At least ya'll de-funded those awful police! you know the ones that catch criminals? Yeah. Don't need any of them! (Says the cop, with a giant eye-roll)
not me bubba i said then to shoot the SOBs throwing malitav cocktails and burning crap down (and i was Born here) them trashing things because they don't get their way..
i think too many "Commy minded " fruit loops have permantley changed this place for the worst.. i lived up there for about 10 years and loved the way you COULD if you wanted to defend your Castle..
you break the law you go to jail pretty simple...
 
Back
Top