Spyderco Advocate bearing Race A total Failure..

Sal Glesser said:
Most of the problems we've encountered have been "adjusted", but we also believe there is a problem with the design that must be corrected. We also have to recognize that many will adjust their knives and so the materials will have o be sorted so this does not create a problem. Which means a re-design.

sal
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Don't own the knife but as a long-time customer I really appreciate your response.
 
Glad to see they are taking care of the issue. I almost purchased one of these.... glad I didn't.

Love my para 2, but......

Waiting on a new release to drop from another company.
 
I've been carrying a Mantra 2 almost every day since April of 2016. It's been disassembled a bunch of times for various reasons- regrinding, cleanup after the regrind, cleaning out some very sticky and acidic apple gunk that I couldn't wash out, etc. The pivot has been tightened six ways from Sunday in this process, and as I've yet to pick up more loc-tite I've been periodically adjusting the action for the past several weeks. It's never been an amazing flipper, nor does the blade drop free- IMO the blade is just too too light to do so- but I'd never characterize it as gritty, and as the ball bearings wore a track in on the blade the action got progressively smoother. In the interests of the most subjective comparison possible I just purchased some of the washers that Iceman recommended, and when they arrive I'll photograph the current state of the stock bearings, and see if the copper ones improve the action at all.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, during the break-in process I periodically cleaned the detent track by oiling the immediate area and running a piece of paper between the blade and detent ball. Removes any metal dust that might accumulate as the track wears in.
 
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I have followed this thread from the beginning and have a number of questions, none of which have really been answered. As an old army weapons tech and instrument mechanic, I can certainly follow the reasoning from both sides of the equasion, yet curiously enough, I never need to strip down a knife for cleaning. The reasons? I can clean the knife without disassembly and I simply don't know the torque requirements of the pivot screws. That may sound dumb, but if the manufacturer assembled a knife with a specific torque and then went to the added expense of red Loctite 263, I just have to figure that they don't want me messing with the construction. Now, that's just me.

I own dozens of Spyderco knives and with the exception of a couple of Paramilitaries with sticking locks, I have never received a dud, so I have confidence in the company and their engineering. As you have all peaked my curiosity, I just ordered an Advocate to see what the heck. I will report back to this thread with my experience.
 
I got mine yesterday and it seems to be fine, no issues so far. :) :thumbup:

Seems to be a fantastic model from what I have seen in hand so far, fit and finish are outstanding, beautiful design. :)
 
I just got one. So if there is a redesign, do all of us get our knives serviced or are we out of luck?
 
nick800 said:
I just got one. So if there is a redesign, do all of us get our knives serviced or are we out of luck?
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Hi Nick,

Our customers are rarely "out of luck". We work for you and we extend great effort to keep happy customers. Isn't keeping "Happy Customers" what a business should be about?

We won't know a direction until any potential problems are solved. But I will say we have quite a few happy customers using the model.

sal
 
Surfingringo said:
Is your knife working properly like most?
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I've had it for about 8 hours. Seems fine now, but who knows. Those washers are very thin.

I just hope that if the redesign is to eliminate the barrings and replace with bronze washers, that we can send ours in for that fix.

The Advocate is a beautiful knife. I wanted one since they were first announced. I think there is a lot of value in the design, and I wish it wasn't tainted with this issue. Regardless of how real or perceived it is.
 
I can't hold out any longer, I'm ordering one next week.
I have 2 Spydies with the same system, Domino & Southard, both have been perfect for over a year.
I have wanted an Advocate since I saw the first pic. If there is anything wrong with it, Spydie will take care of it. Like they have been doing for years.
Joe
 
nick800 said:
I've had it for about 8 hours. Seems fine now, but who knows. Those washers are very thin.

I just hope that if the redesign is to eliminate the barrings and replace with bronze washers, that we can send ours in for that fix.

The Advocate is a beautiful knife. I wanted one since they were first announced. I think there is a lot of value in the design, and I wish it wasn't tainted with this issue. Regardless of how real or perceived it is.
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Glad to hear that yours is working well. Enjoy it. :thumbup:
 
I don't own one and haven't seen one disassembled, but I have to ask, why not simply mill the pocket a couple hundredths of an inch deeper to accommodate a similarly thicker washer?
 
I purchased one of the first Advocates from Blade HQ and can only say wow great knife, no issues.
 
Hey Nick,

Every new model has some issues. Some larger than others. We fix'em and always take care of our customers. With as many models and variations as we make, and everything new needs attention somewhere, and we do a lot of "new". We're probably holding up fairly well.

As a model evolves, the "bugs" are worked out. As you say, those washers are thin. Folks brag on ZT's flippers, they do a great job, but they've been making them much longer than we have, and to my knowledge, they've not made something this small, thin and light. Flippers are not easy to make and we're learning more all of the time.

sal
 
I'll share what I did to fix my Advocate. And mine NEEDED FIXING! I disassembled my ZT220 for cleaning & lubing. I noticed that the bearings in the 220 were quite small as many of the more recent ZT's are. (I don't see the larger ones inset into the blue plastic/nylon washers used as much these days in many of their newer models.) But since I've taken apart my Advocate so many times, hoping & trying to find a way to improve the slow, gritty, totally unsatisfactory action on mine...I wondered if the small bearings on the ZT220 might fit in the Advocate and improve things, even if just a little I'd be happy. I NEEDED to see if they might do anything to help the situation I was SO aggravated about...with my Advocate. So I put the 220's bearings into the Advocate and also removed the paper thin washers that came in the Advocate...because I also noticed, just by eyeballing them, the bearings from the ZT were just a tiny bit thicker than the bearings that come in the Advocate. I hoped that the final thickness might come close to matching by removing the washers & just letting the ZT220 bearings ride directly on the Advocate's ti bearing races (that would just become "work hardened" if/when a track developed, again, assuming this little experiment even worked) --- But then I decided to take one additional step. I whipped out the old trusty Dremel and polished the bearing races in the Advocate. So with the races meticulously mirror polished, the original Advocate washers & bearings removed, and using the bearings for the ZT220 and a few tiny drops of Nano Oil in a few "pivotal" locations (pun intended), the action on my Advocate has improved by, oh I'd say, about a thousand percent! Now, granted, it's ridiculous that a customer should have to go through all of that to end up with a knife, as great as the Advocate is it every other respect, that is only now as smooth and as satisfying/enjoyable to open & close (with ball bearing smoothness as it should be, IMHO) as an off the shelf ZT with bearings. Now, finally, I have an Advocate that works as I hoped it would and as it, in my opinion, really should. After some fine adjustments to lockbar tension and pivot screw adjustments (and a dab of blue Loctite), my lockup is rock solid and at about 50% instead of the original 20%. But it's steel on steel so it is a price I'm happy to pay considering the absolutely HUGE improvement in it's action. I hope this is helpful to anyone still frustrated if they got an Advocate and the action isn't NEAR what they assumed, expected or wanted it to be. I did track down bearings the size of the ones in my ZT220 so I could return those bearings to their rightful place, back in the 220. All is finally, now, right with the world...of my Spyderco Advocate. Mr. Glesser, if you read this and an even better fix comes along, I can only hope my honesty & decision to share this information publicly will not preclude me from that "better" fix via Spyderco. (even though mine's pretty darn good, I must say) Now...I LOVE the knife...and especially its action. But I hope I never have to go through that again with a future Spyderco on bearings. I do love most of your products. -- PS. I'm guessing I've now uber-voided my Spyderco warranty. It's ok. I now have the Advocate I wanted from the beginning.:)
 
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Sal Glesser said:
Hey Nick,

Every new model has some issues. Some larger than others. We fix'em and always take care of our customers. With as many models and variations as we make, and everything new needs attention somewhere, and we do a lot of "new". We're probably holding up fairly well.

As a model evolves, the "bugs" are worked out. As you say, those washers are thin. Folks brag on ZT's flippers, they do a great job, but they've been making them much longer than we have, and to my knowledge, they've not made something this small, thin and light. Flippers are not easy to make and we're learning more all of the time.

sal
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The ZT 0450 is smaller, thinner, lighter and flips beautifully.
 
It may have been this thread that a guy put in new thicker PB washes to replace the thin ones and he posted the measurents as well. Like the gentleman with the ZT 0220 bearings, I would like to replace the bearings in one I am getting as well but I do not have an extra ZT lying around. Does anyone know the measurements of the Advocate bearings? I am brand new to this forum (not even a week I don't think) and am wanting to get all the info I can about it.
 
MarlowOutlaw said:
It may have been this thread that a guy put in new thicker PB washes to replace the thin ones and he posted the measurents as well. Like the gentleman with the ZT 0220 bearings, I would like to replace the bearings in one I am getting as well but I do not have an extra ZT lying around. Does anyone know the measurements of the Advocate bearings? I am brand new to this forum (not even a week I don't think) and am wanting to get all the info I can about it.
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Why wouldn't you wait and see how your Advocate is before deciding it needs replacement parts? I've seen a lot of people stating that their Advocate is great. It's likely your's will be too.
 
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