Spyderco Manix 2 xl (lock strength)

I got my Manix 2 XL last night, and it sure seems sturdy. I'm definitely impressed.

I could be wrong, but I don't think my lock is built like it has been described in this thread.
First: I can't see any "ball bearing". The lock seems more like a fairly large bar (maybe 1/4" diameter) going into the tang of the blade.
Second: It doesn't merely go a millimeter into the tang. I measured 1/4".
Third: The spring that holds it in the blade tang is quite stiff. It takes my thumb and index finger both to move it to close the blade.

As I said, it sure looks sturdy to me.

I can't speak for the lock you folks are talking about, but I really don't think it's the same lock as on my Manix 2 XL.
 
jnichols2 said:
I got my Manix 2 XL last night, and it sure seems sturdy. I'm definitely impressed.

I could be wrong, but I don't think my lock is built like it has been described in this thread.
First: I can't see any "ball bearing". The lock seems more like a fairly large bar (maybe 1/4" diameter) going into the tang of the blade.
Second: It doesn't merely go a millimeter into the tang. I measured 1/4".
Third: The spring that holds it in the blade tang is quite stiff. It takes my thumb and index finger both to move it to close the blade.

As I said, it sure looks sturdy to me.

I can't speak for the lock you folks are talking about, but I really don't think it's the same lock as on my Manix 2 XL.
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Unless there was a rolling change very recently, it's a ball bearing. My M2XL is new, and I've taken it apart. If there has been a change, that would be very interesting to verify :thumbup: Any chance you can get pictures of what you're describing?

edit: FWIW there is a pin inside the spring which goes towards the tang, and that pushes a ball bearing in place. Mine goes about 1/8" onto the tang.
 
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Kreole,

None of my pictures show what I was trying to describe, but another poster had better pictures. When I found the post, it was you.

You not only have better pictures, but I'm positive you know more than I do. I have never seen a Manix 2 with the older translucent white thumb piece.

I re-examined my knife with a magnifying glass, but can't see any ball bearing. The black thumb piece does move into a slot in the blade when the knife opens, that appears to lock it open.

When it first starts to open, something gives it a bit of initial resistance. Also, there is a slot in the top of the black piece that the blade tang slides into when the knife closes. Is the ball bearing inside the black piece?

Spyderco Edge-U-Cation shows a ball bearing sitting on top of the spring that moves into the blade tang. I can't see anything like that.

My curiosity is not strong enough to make me take the knife apart. So, I'll defer to your greater knowledge.
 
The ball bearing is encased by the black "buttions".
 
to the person who can't see the steel ball.

just open the blade, but not all the way and take a look inside with a light. unless you stab your eye out while doing so, you should see the the steel ball locked inside the plastic cage (the button). it's being pressed against the tang of the knife.

please don't stab yourself in the eye.
 
I suppose the reason I can't see it is that the new plastic cage is a solid black. It's not a translucent white like the old one.
 
I can honestly say I have never been in a situation where I wished my knife had a stronger lock.
 
My two cents:

Aside from marketing the P'kal as a premiere SD tool, Spyderco's also marketing the black Manix XL as a tactical folder. That means, to me, that both the black and the satin versions should be able to withstand combat stresses. Spine whacks are used to disarm a knife wielder. Some fighters also use the spine to trap an opponent's arm, putting a lot of sudden pressure on the back of the blade. So. When I see a spine-whack test like Jankerson's and VanHash's, it does indicate whether the knife, marketed as a tactical folder, lives up to the "tactical" claim.

It doesn't matter if the knife is solidly built on the whole: If the bar/ball bearing can be jostled out of position or blown out of the side of the handle, you suddenly have yourself a very sturdy safety hazard. Yay.

Yes, if we're talking about a knife's strength for non-combat applications, the spine whack tests mean almost nothing. But, again, given that Spyderco explicitly markets these CBBL knives as tactical/MBC folders, the whackin' test does give a rough idea of truth/untruth in advertising.
 
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Spyderco is marketing the black Manix XL as a tactical folder. That means, to me, that both the black and the satin versions should be able to withstand combat stresses.
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Yes, if we're talking about a knife's strength for non-combat applications, the spine whack tests mean almost nothing. But, again, Spyderco explicitly markets the black XL and, implicitly, the satin version, as a combat folder. The whackin' test does, therefore, give a rough idea of just how tactical the XL really is.
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I agree 100%

Obviously a fixed blade is best. Unfortunately for legal reasons I am forced to instead carry folding knives.

Lock strength is the first thing I look for in a folding knife. If lock strength is your highest priority, I'd recommend a Cold Steel knife with their Tri-Ad lock, it's the strongest lock on the market. The second strongest lock design is probably Spyderco's compression lock (as featured on the Para-military 2, Superleaf, and Yojimbo 2).
 
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If you use your knife as a knife, and don't confuse it with a hammer, chisel, level, power drill, or shovel, things should be fine. On another note, why in the world would you spine whack a knife?
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For a knife like the Manix 2 (or really any locking Spyderco), lock failure will practially never occur under normal conditions. However as a knife enthusiast, I am willing to pay more for a knife for certain features, particularliy lock strength. If I just wanted to cut something I could do that with a $10 Walmart knife, however I am willing to pay the extra cost for high end features. It's unlikely I will ever put a knife I carry into a situation where I would HAVE TO HAVE a top of the line lock, edge retention, ergonamics, or overall knife strength, but I am willing to pay extra in order to have these features in a knife.

In other words, the strength of a knife's lock is a worthy topic to discuss.
 
ForeskinAvenger said:
The second strongest lock design is probably Spyderco's compression lock (as featured on the Para-military 2, Superleaf, and Yojimbo 2).
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Thank you for pointing out the Superleaf. I'm sure the compression lock far exceeds any requirements of MBC or "very hard use," and that VG-10 leaf blade is so wonderfully utilitarian.

It would seem that Spyderco has long ago fixed whatever allegedly allowed spine shock to break the BB's lockup. Okay, cool. Yet I still don't know about Eric Glesser's polymer cage. The top and bottom of the ball are held within the knife by a lot of steel. Wonderful. But the sides of the ball/handle? Is the ball held within the scales merely by that polymer cage? If so, and the polymer breaks, can the ball simply fall or fly out the side of the handle? Or does steel (say, the liners) help keep the ball inside the scales? I'd feel perfectly at ease about that polymer cage if I knew it weren't the only thing keeping the ball bearing from flying out one side of the handle. Maybe Sal or Eric can address this question/issue ...

Of course, all this CBBL hooplah might be avoided with the phenomenal compression lock, a la the Para2. Manix3 and 3XL with a compression lock maybe? *Shrug*
 
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Foreskin: I have three Tri-Ad knives. I wish they had steels with better edge retention (they're AUS8), but the knives are pretty much perfect for the money. I love the lock up and I love the strong detent even more. No, I can't do those fun--and arguably illegal--tricks with CS knives, disengaging the lock and swinging/flicking the blade around (as with some Axis, BBL, and newer compression-lock knives). That's fine with me. I prefer toughness and reliability over flash and play, and I prefer to avoid the possibility that a cop will accuse me of carrying a 'gravity knife.'

Re: the polymer-and-steel BBL ... someone elsewhere on the forum pointed out how Glocks work wonderfully, yet they're metal and plastic. Well, okay, but how many plasti-guns failed, and for how many years, before Glock came along and got it right?

I guess *that's* the rub, for me. Is the BBL time-proven, or has time proven ... something else? About a year and a half ago, Sal Lesser wrote (in a different thread) that 1) "No one had ever used many of the polymers and steels before we brought them to the market" and 2) "When you use a new material or do something that has never been done before, history will be needed to be absolutely sure of results. Lab testing only goes so far." Now, I admire Glesser for communicating with us and addressing our concerns, but--somewhat obviously--my concern is right there is Sal's statements. The BBL is a new direction. The polymer cage is a new (I'm guessing unique) direction. Yeah, the BBL has been lab tested, but as Sal admits, lab tests only go so far. The BBL has been out for a while, too, so yes, it does have some history to support it. But the failures in that short history--assuming those failures really occurred--well, they would seem to be rare, yes, but also sudden, catastrophic, and unpredictable: e.g., BBL cages breaking apart during light use. Assuming, again, that such failures really have occurred, I'd like to read Spyderco's analyses of why they occurred, what Spyderco's done to fix the problems, and what I can reasonably expect from the BBL henceforth. Well, no, I don't really need *that* much disclosure. A simpler "Yes, we've assessed the (alleged) problems and have fixed them (or have found they never truly existed). Therefore, dear consumer, you are good to go. We are 'absolutely sure of the results.'"

Yes, I do know all locks fail. I know fixed blades fail. I know the greatest products in the History of Products have failed horribly. Despite my somewhat critical analysis, I do want to take Sal at his word (including the words used to market the XL and P'kal); I do want to trust Spyderco's CQI; and I do want to hit the great outdoors with, say, a Manix2 XL in my pocket. I'm only on this thread because the M2XL could well be one of my ideal knives. I'm just not convinced that the ideal is real.

But I'm open to persuasion.
 
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Marc, all I can tell you is the XL is an amazing knife. It's a folder, with a nice locking mechanism that has been tested in the real world. Internet videos don't tell anything about abuse the knife and lock has sustained prior to filming. If you want an XL, get it, I don't see one variant of the Manix family that I don't like.
 
Hey, thanks for the input, Yo.

I'll say this in the spirit of Father's Day: Sal seems to consider his products his brain-children in the truest sense of the word. He seems genuinely to care about them and about us, the users. I only get that impression from the folks at my most trusted knife companies. That doesn't mean I trust blindly and ignore criticism, but I'll give 'em the benefit of the doubt.
 
I just took a look at a manix2 XL two nights ago. It was carried by a guy in town that just got back from his third or fourth deployment. This is the knife he took on his last deployment. If he had handed me the knife and it had looked unused or barely used I wouldn't be commenting. The knife looked well used. That combined with his comment, "It's a good knife!" - is worth more to me than youtube abuse videos.
 
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