Spyderco "mislead" about price increases!!!

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Aww, where did G Ganzofan go? I guess a little pushback and a couple facts sent him into some kind of fear spiral? Trolls be so predictable.

Well I do have a life outsider of forum posting...

So far the responses I read through this thread can be summed up into four categories:

1. Most responses are personal attacks against me or my screen name

2. Then there are responses with attacks on China, their ethics, slave labor, etc... It's possible other Chinese knife makers operate unethically or getting government subsidies, ok it's possible and maybe that's why TwoSun can offer much more on the value proposition. However this further proves my point, why is the China made Tenacious more expensive than the Taiwan made Rat 1?

3. Some tried to explain cost increases because of increase in labor, inflation, higher cost of US operation, cost to fight counterfeiting, advertising cost (i have yet to see any commercials on knife companies, and Spyderco benefits from direct advertising without the need for market research because of forums like this and Spyderco's own forum, it's a competitive advantage that's not existent in other industries so don't tell me about your assumption of "market research cost") etc... Note, Ontario is also a US company and we can assume they incur all the cost Spyderco does. Why is it the Rat 1 did not increase in price at all over the last decade? NO ONE HAS PROVIDED A PLAUSIBLE ANSWER TO THIS

4. Other responses are in one form or another fan response from knife nuts that lacks any logic to the argument... "spyderco is worth it", "I'm willing to pay whatever Spyderco asks", "Sal's a great guy and listens to his fans", "Spyderco is great, Ganzo is garbage", "I'm carrying Spydercos today, post your pics if you are too" etc... I mean come on, really? I said in the original post that I think Spyderco is worth whatever price anyone is willing to pay for it as everything else in life.

Furthermore, I remember from my college cost accounting class that manufacturing overhead costs for an unchanged product goes down with time. And Tenacious would long have reach the breakeven point. The machine setup cost, blue print cost, worker training cost, specialty machine and die cast cost etc... would of all have been recouped by now resulting in the Tenacious costing less now than it did 12 years ago to produce. (I concede labor cost probably went up but as we know, labor in China is dirt cheap, President Trump has told us so repeatedly)

And please please read your own post before posting and stop posting stuff that makes it seems like Tenacious is not made in China, you are sabotaging your own argument.

Let's bring another two knives into the mix, Shaman and Slysz Bowie. Fans complained about their cost and compared it to other knives with similar materials made in their respective U.S and Taiwan facilities. Sal punched his key board "the rounded handles cost more to make" and fans grumbled but otherwise shut up and ate it up. I'm sure it cost more to "round the handles", let's not even bring in other knives from other makers with rounded handles and their relative price. Let's just talk about the increase in price because of the "rounded handles" relative to other similar knives made in the same facilities. When anyone tries to tell me a 70% to 100% increase in retail price is due to additional machining cost for rounded handles? I call BS on that one too... It's simple supply and demand, they're hot knives and people will pay more, that's it.
 
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Ganzo, i think you've made too many, friends, on this thread, you should probably just listen to those who have way more knowledge / experience on the subject, and be open to being taught by those who are still willing to lend their expertise to you, i think you are demonstrating an inability to show appreciation to the individuals here who are taking time out of their day to respond to you
P.S. Sal is Spyderco's chief design engineer, he's a very smart man
 
Look, Ganzofan:
1) Spyderco’s are luxury goods. Luxury good pricing is almost cost independent (think Rolex, Luis Voutton, etc.)
2) Calling somebody a liar is a major personal attack, in my book. Now I understand it’s not in other cultures, but it is for many here .... Did it occur to you that Sal is guessing / is not involved anymore in pricing ?
3) Why this thread ? Just don’t buy Spyderco’s, let your wallet speak.

Roland.
 
Why is it the Rat 1 did not increase in price at all over the last decade? NO ONE HAS PROVIDED A PLAUSIBLE ANSWER TO THIS

Except it was answered:

very piece of G10 needs to be cut and shaped and that requires a fair amount of PPE to do safely. Beyond the initial cost of molds, FRN is vastly less labor intensive and so it benefits much more from economy of scale.

If the tenacious was overpriced, it wouldn't sell, and Spyderco would have discontinued it long ago. Surely they taught you that in business class.

Based on the rest of your post, I can tell you don't really want to listen to any answers to your "question" or any other counter arguments. You are looking for one very specific answer, and you have painted yourself into one very specific corner. Nobody is going to give you the answer you're looking for, because so far nobody agrees with you.
 
Well I do have a life outsider of forum posting...

So far the responses I read through this thread can be summed up into four categories:

1. Most responses are personal attacks against me or my screen name

2. Then there are responses with attacks on China, their ethics, slave labor, etc... It's possible other Chinese knife makers operate unethically or getting government subsidies, ok it's possible and maybe that's why TwoSun can offer much more on the value proposition. However this further proves my point, why is the China made Tenacious more expensive than the Taiwan made Rat 1?

3. Some tried to explain cost increases because of increase in labor, inflation, higher cost of US operation, cost to fight counterfeiting, advertising cost (i have yet to see any commercials on knife companies, and Spyderco benefits from direct advertising without the need for market research because of forums like this and Spyderco's own forum, it's a competitive advantage that's not existent in other industries so don't tell me about your assumption of "market research cost") etc... Note, Ontario is also a US company and we can assume they incur all the cost Spyderco does. Why is it the Rat 1 did not increase in price at all over the last decade? NO ONE HAS PROVIDED A PLAUSIBLE ANSWER TO THIS

4. Other responses are in one form or another fan response from knife nuts that lacks any logic to the argument... "spyderco is worth it", "I'm willing to pay whatever Spyderco asks", "Sal's a great guy and listens to his fans", "Spyderco is great, Ganzo is garbage", "I'm carrying Spydercos today, post your pics if you are too" etc... I mean come on, really? I said in the original post that I think Spyderco is worth whatever price anyone is willing to pay for it as everything else in life.

Furthermore, I remember from my college cost accounting class that manufacturing overhead costs for an unchanged product goes down with time. And Tenacious would long have reach the breakeven point. The machine setup cost, blue print cost, worker training cost, specialty machine and die cast cost etc... would of all have been recouped by now resulting in the Tenacious costing less now than it did 12 years ago to produce. (I concede labor cost probably went up but as we know, labor in China is dirt cheap, President Trump has told us so repeatedly)

And please please read your own post before posting and stop posting stuff that makes it seems like Tenacious is not made in China, you are sabotaging your own argument.

Let's bring another two knives into the mix, Shaman and Slysz Bowie. Fans complained about their cost and compared it to other knives with similar materials made in their respective U.S and Taiwan facilities. Sal punched his key board "the rounded handles cost more to make" and fans grumbled but otherwise shut up. I'm sure it cost more to "round the handles", let's not even bring in other knives from other makers with rounded handles and their relative price. Let's just talk about the increase in price because of the "rounded handles" relative to other knives made in the same facilities. When anyone tries to tell me a 70% to 100% increase in retail price is due to additional machining cost for rounded handles I call BS on that one too...
You still don't get it.

That first knife was never the price you're using as your benchmark.

Now you're going to throw the Slysz Bowie in the mix. It does cost more to mill Ti in a smooth pattern.

Just because you don't understand something that doesn't mean it's easy or inexpensive. As said I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
 
57-B7-D228-292-C-4864-BB1-D-1631-BE0949-A8.jpg

Spyderco sells knives in all price ranges, including the Byrd line, if you want a low cost knife, then buy one at the low cost price. Let’s not forget that Spyderco not only has to buy the materials, they also have to pay their employees, utilities, wear and tear on equipment, warranty work, buy replacement belts for grinding equipment, etc. Not to mention, the level of quality they maintain to back their prices up. I for one appreciate having products like Spyderco on the knife market regardless of their price. Pictured above is my Spyderco Endura 4 ZDP-189.
 
Ganzo, i think you've made too many, friends, on this thread, you should probably just listen to those who have way more knowledge / experience on the subject, and be open to being taught by those who are still willing to lend their expertise to you, i think you are demonstrating an inability to show appreciation to the individuals here who are taking time out of their day to respond to you
P.S. Sal is Spyderco's chief design engineer, he's a very smart man

While I would love to do that but I don't fall for group think and I like to challenge the status quo.

As President Trump taught us, there's great fallacy in group think. In 2016 everyone said he will loose, all the research and poll numbers said he will loose, yet he won against everyone's expectations.
 
Well I do have a life outsider of forum posting...

So far the responses I read through this thread can be summed up into four categories:

1. Most responses are personal attacks against me or my screen name

2. Then there are responses with attacks on China, their ethics, slave labor, etc... It's possible other Chinese knife makers operate unethically or getting government subsidies, ok it's possible and maybe that's why TwoSun can offer much more on the value proposition. However this further proves my point, why is the China made Tenacious more expensive than the Taiwan made Rat 1?

3. Some tried to explain cost increases because of increase in labor, inflation, higher cost of US operation, cost to fight counterfeiting, advertising cost (i have yet to see any commercials on knife companies, and Spyderco benefits from direct advertising without the need for market research because of forums like this and Spyderco's own forum, it's a competitive advantage that's not existent in other industries so don't tell me about your assumption of "market research cost") etc... Note, Ontario is also a US company and we can assume they incur all the cost Spyderco does. Why is it the Rat 1 did not increase in price at all over the last decade? NO ONE HAS PROVIDED A PLAUSIBLE ANSWER TO THIS

4. Other responses are in one form or another fan response from knife nuts that lacks any logic to the argument... "spyderco is worth it", "I'm willing to pay whatever Spyderco asks", "Sal's a great guy and listens to his fans", "Spyderco is great, Ganzo is garbage", "I'm carrying Spydercos today, post your pics if you are too" etc... I mean come on, really? I said in the original post that I think Spyderco is worth whatever price anyone is willing to pay for it as everything else in life.

Furthermore, I remember from my college cost accounting class that manufacturing overhead costs for an unchanged product goes down with time. And Tenacious would long have reach the breakeven point. The machine setup cost, blue print cost, worker training cost, specialty machine and die cast cost etc... would of all have been recouped by now resulting in the Tenacious costing less now than it did 12 years ago to produce. (I concede labor cost probably went up but as we know, labor in China is dirt cheap, President Trump has told us so repeatedly)

And please please read your own post before posting and stop posting stuff that makes it seems like Tenacious is not made in China, you are sabotaging your own argument.

Let's bring another two knives into the mix, Shaman and Slysz Bowie. Fans complained about their cost and compared it to other knives with similar materials made in their respective U.S and Taiwan facilities. Sal punched his key board "the rounded handles cost more to make" and fans grumbled but otherwise shut up and ate it up. I'm sure it cost more to "round the handles", let's not even bring in other knives from other makers with rounded handles and their relative price. Let's just talk about the increase in price because of the "rounded handles" relative to other similar knives made in the same facilities. When anyone tries to tell me a 70% to 100% increase in retail price is due to additional machining cost for rounded handles? I call BS on that one too... It's simple supply and demand, they're hot knives and people will pay more, that's it.
If a class really did teach you that manufacturing costs go down over time you need to ask them for a refund. The single greatest expense in manufacturing practically anything is labor and labor costs don't go down over time, much the opposite. It doesn't take any less labor or time to make G10 handles now than it did 12 years ago, nor will it in another 12 years. This is incredibly basic stuff.

I also notice that your list never addressed my point, that the Tenacious has always been significantly more expensive and therefore your entire argument is BS.

At this point it just seems like you think Sal pissed in your Cheerios some morning and this is the impotent way you try to exact revenge.
 
(Calling somebody a liar is a major personal attack); This is a very bold statement to make,this jeapardizes the reputation of a company or a person if untrue.Panning down the threads and seeing this title is i huge thing to see, i see it very unfounded and doesnt make sense to me.
 
Wow. I own a Rat 1 in D2 but I don't own a Tenacious. Does that make me the smartest person on this forum? I think so. Top 10 for sure.

Btw, had an Endura in my pocket today.
 
My total post count = 606

Your total post count = 4626

I don't know man, I'm not good at math but I think 4626 is alot more than 606...
You just admitted earlier in the thread that you lost access to your old account and that you had a separate account at another forum. We don’t know how active you are on other forums/social media.
 
While I would love to do that but I don't fall for group think and I like to challenge the status quo.

As President Trump taught us, there's great fallacy in group think. In 2016 everyone said he will loose, all the research and poll numbers said he will loose, yet he won against everyone's expectations.

Stop with the politics. There's a forum for that and this ain't it.
 
3. Some tried to explain cost increases because of increase in labor, inflation, higher cost of US operation, cost to fight counterfeiting, advertising cost (i have yet to see any commercials on knife companies, and Spyderco benefits from direct advertising without the need for market research because of forums like this and Spyderco's own forum, it's a competitive advantage that's not existent in other industries so don't tell me about your assumption of "market research cost") etc... Note, Ontario is also a US company and we can assume they incur all the cost Spyderco does. Why is it the Rat 1 did not increase in price at all over the last decade? NO ONE HAS PROVIDED A PLAUSIBLE ANSWER TO THIS


Furthermore, I remember from my college cost accounting class that manufacturing overhead costs for an unchanged product goes down with time. And Tenacious would long have reach the breakeven point. The machine setup cost, blue print cost, worker training cost, specialty machine and die cast cost etc... would of all have been recouped by now resulting in the Tenacious costing less now than it did 12 years ago to produce. (I concede labor cost probably went up but as we know, labor in China is dirt cheap, President Trump has told us so repeatedly)
  1. First, as I have previously posted, the $25 RAT 1 is not comparable in materials to the Tenacious. So your initial comparison is bogus.
  2. Advertising includes all forms of marketing, from showing up at Blade, to taking and shipping orders, to running customer support, to participating in forums. I
  3. Neither you nor I can know what specific costs either Spyderco or Ontario incur. However, it is known that the Spyderco business model includes inspection, warehousing, and shipping operations in the US. That incurs US labor and tax costs. I don't know that Ontario does that anymore for their foreign made knives. It is known that Ontario have greatly expanded their foreign operations.
  4. You misremember your accounting or you were mistaught. As an engineer who is required to understand costs of manufacturing processes (something not taught to the bean counters) I can tell you that overhead costs have not gone down over the last 20 years.
 
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