Spyderco "mislead" about price increases!!!

[appliepie123]

I think it's a sign of transparency when someone openly admits to lacking a certain expertise. Some people here are being way too harsh. This is a forum where knife enthusiasts are meant to come together to enjoy talking about their shared hobby. There shouldn't be a 'this tall to ride' requirement. It didn't come across as very welcoming.

I completely agree with this. I feel like there is so much of a herd mentality going on. Sure there are somethings that OP stated that may not have been factual and there are things that he could have provided more explanation for. However, this is a forum for discussion, not a place for everyone to make sarcastic and rancid remarks against the OP because he has a polarizing opinion.

Maybe you all have been here for a lot longer than me but if someone makes a polarizing post stating "CRK sucks because of XYZ" instead of bashing the OP for "invalid" reasons and making ad hominem attacks against the OP, it would be much more productive and welcoming to level headed-ly explain to the OP why he may be mistaken.

 

[dcycleman]

I believe it's disingenuous to accuse Sal Glesser of lying by claiming that he's offered materials costs as the sole reason for Spyderco's price increases. His own recent statements run contrary to that argument.




But neither do I buy the premise that Spyderco's knife prices are based entirely on manufacturing and other pragmatic factors, as Mr. Glesser's own statements counter that argument, as well.







Clearly, he views at least some of his knives as works of art. And it seems that he feels that aesthetics, creative processes, and other intangibles can (and should) affect the pricing of those pieces.

In recent years, Spyderco has priced most of its quality models out of my comfort level. (I don't shop much at the low-budget end, so I'm not interested in the Byrd or Chinese-made lines.) I don't think it's useful to compare Amazon pricing, since Spyderco doesn't sell through Amazon any longer.




So to demonstrate what I'm talking about, I'll use an apples-to-apples comparison from Cutlery Shoppe. This is the Military entry from a 2003 catalog.

This is what a Military is offered for today.

My salary did not increase by 94% in the past seventeen years; neither did the salaries of anyone I know. So no matter how you rationalize that price increase, I won't be buying a Military model casually these days because it's simply too high a percentage of my disposable income. Most other Spyderco knives are in the same category for me.


-Steve


P.S. - When did it become fashionable to post pictures of a knife from a brand you like in response to someone making an assertion with which you disagree? It's the Blade Forums equivalent of the four-year-old putting her fingers in her ears when she's told it's bedtime and responding with, "Nyah, nyah, nyah! I can't hear you!"

My salary (income) has increased more than 94% in the last 17 years. Actually quite a bit more.

 

[soc_monki]

I completely agree with this. I feel like there is so much of a herd mentality going on. Sure there are somethings that OP stated that may not have been factual and there are things that he could have provided more explanation for. However, this is a forum for discussion, not a place for everyone to make sarcastic and rancid remarks against the OP because he has a polarizing opinion.

Maybe you all have been here for a lot longer than me but if someone makes a polarizing post stating "CRK sucks because of XYZ" instead of bashing the OP for "invalid" reasons and making ad hominem attacks against the OP, it would be much more productive and welcoming to level headed-ly explain to the OP why he may be mistaken.

The OP supports cloners and thieves, his opinion is moot IMO.

 

[The Whip]

My salary (income) has increased more than 94% in the last 17 years. Actually quite a bit more.

Then I guess you are Spyderco's target audience.

-Steve

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I completely agree with this. I feel like there is so much of a herd mentality going on. Sure there are somethings that OP stated that may not have been factual and there are things that he could have provided more explanation for. However, this is a forum for discussion, not a place for everyone to make sarcastic and rancid remarks against the OP because he has a polarizing opinion.

Maybe you all have been here for a lot longer than me but if someone makes a polarizing post stating "CRK sucks because of XYZ" instead of bashing the OP for "invalid" reasons and making ad hominem attacks against the OP, it would be much more productive and welcoming to level headed-ly explain to the OP why he may be mistaken.

You're very new here and what you fail to recognize is that the OP has a history and agenda that many here are very familiar with. Claiming something is 'herd mentality' because a false and inflammatory argument is widely dismissed is a failure of logic.

Furthermore, the 'may not be factual' in your statement is doing a huge amount of work, to the point where it's simply an insufficient descriptor of what the OP did. He leveled an accusation against a widely respected member of the knife community and failed to back it up with any concrete evidence. I try to avoid insulting individual members in the open forums, as that's against the rules, but defamatory accusations backed only by hot air are a thing that absolutely should be met with mockery and vitriol, IMO, as that shouldn't have any place in this community.

 

[skyhorse]

Should Spyderco stamp Made In USA on their economy China models just to make people feel they’re getting a better deal ?

 

[Planterz]

My salary did not increase by 94% in the past seventeen years; neither did the salaries of anyone I know. So no matter how you rationalize that price increase, I won't be buying a Military model casually these days because it's simply too high a percentage of my disposable income. Most other Spyderco knives are in the same category for me.

Have you been to McDondalds or Subway lately?

 

[JokersFaceLifter]

its not just knives, everything is getting more expensive lately and its not "just because" there's so many moving parts (pun intended) responsible for producing a product, starting at the initial brainstorm design to the finished product and price to consumer, the overall economy can at any time fluctuate and by doing so, affect the pricing somewhere along the line, IMO

 

[Steely_Gunz]

I completely agree with this. I feel like there is so much of a herd mentality going on. Sure there are somethings that OP stated that may not have been factual and there are things that he could have provided more explanation for. However, this is a forum for discussion, not a place for everyone to make sarcastic and rancid remarks against the OP because he has a polarizing opinion.

Maybe you all have been here for a lot longer than me but if someone makes a polarizing post stating "CRK sucks because of XYZ" instead of bashing the OP for "invalid" reasons and making ad hominem attacks against the OP, it would be much more productive and welcoming to level headed-ly explain to the OP why he may be mistaken.

I can understand where your heart is. I commend you for trying to take a higher road. However....

The OP doesn't want to discuss, hash out, or even have a question answered as his original statement was countered with facts....multiple times. He makes inflammatory statements about Sal because he knows it will ruffle fearhers here. He wants to stir the pot. He wants an argument, but he wishes to debate using incorrect information with a dash of conspiracy theory mixed in for flavor..

Please do a quick forum search about what Sal, Eric, and all of Spyderco have done for the knife industry and how they conduct themselves and their business. Completely class act, and Sal is easily one of the most well respected pillars in the knife community, not just here on BFC but in the entire industry.

So far, the opening volley reads like,
"Ah Ha! Sal is a swindler! I have proof because I have extrapolated an undeniable answer because I have cherrypicked numbers to fit my narrative rather than be empirically valid!"
"No.. here's why (ABC)."
"I have been hacked! Cheated! An inside man is holding me down, the TRUTH down!"
"Quit saying dumb and inflammatory things...again."
"I'M BRINGING TRUTH TO THE MASSES!....SEE?..."
(A handful of people grumble about the price of Spyderco, MAP, and offer a wish list of what they wish was more afdordable).

This character is not worth exercising nobility over. This is a bit of ridiculous theater, and im sure it is being allowed to stretch out to give the OP more rope with which to hang himself so that he can go out falling on his own delusional sword.

 

[appliepie123]

The OP supports cloners and thieves, his opinion is moot IMO.

OP has a history and agenda that many here are very familiar with

I have no doubt that you all are right and because of my fetal status in the forum, I am not very appropriated with the different users and their 'MOs'. I would, however, like to state, that from the perspective of someone who is new to the forum, seeing these posts while not knowing the entire context of the OP, it does make the forum appear to be unfriendly to join. But perhaps these threads are not for those who are new to the forum...

 

[Eli Chaps]

I completely agree with this. I feel like there is so much of a herd mentality going on. Sure there are somethings that OP stated that may not have been factual and there are things that he could have provided more explanation for. However, this is a forum for discussion, not a place for everyone to make sarcastic and rancid remarks against the OP because he has a polarizing opinion.

Maybe you all have been here for a lot longer than me but if someone makes a polarizing post stating "CRK sucks because of XYZ" instead of bashing the OP for "invalid" reasons and making ad hominem attacks against the OP, it would be much more productive and welcoming to level headed-ly explain to the OP why he may be mistaken.

Welcome to BF. I'm not picking on you as obviously others have expressed similar sentiments in this thread and I'm addressing them as well. Yours is just the most recent post.

As Insipid Moniker pointed out, the OP has a history of credibility issues. As others have also pointed out, his forum name absolutely will catch people's attention and he absolutely will be judged by it. He fully understands this and purposefully chose the name for that reason, his words at the time.

Then there is the issue of Sal Glesser. I am a die hard Spyderco fan. But they are in no way beyond criticism. Some years ago, on the Spyderco-owned forum Sal and I actually engaged back and forth about price. I said I felt they were pricing me out of collecting their knives. Now keep in mind, I don't buy high-end Spydies, I buy users. But if I buy more than one Manix 2LW, it's moving into collecting. If I want one solid knife to use the Hell out of for years, then the price is not so much of an issue. I will reap every penny. I told Sal I feared they were pricing the blue collar working stiff out of their product line. He didn't get upset about that and said that was something that always concerns him and actually said hearing that mad him sad.

But further, and back to my original point, it is Sal Glesser. People can think what they want, but Sal will always have a special place in the hearts of knife enthusiasts. All of us have seen him act so much the gentleman in so many situations that he had every right not to and that many of us weren't. He is incredibly approachable. Find another high-volume manufacturer whose founder has been actively engaging the customer base for 20yrs. So many of us have seen him help people with issues, quietly gift knives, help first responders and military, and so on. In short, the general knife community will be immediately sensitive to attacks on him that they may not be as sensitive towards others.

The OP knows this full well and that is exactly why he was inflammatory in his title. You can disagree with their pricing and even Sal's stated reasons for it, but around here, people will require a modicum of respect in doing so. A level of respect that won't be applied to other makers. That's just the way it is and it was earned.

 

[JokersFaceLifter]

I can understand where your heart is. I commend you for trying to take a higher road. However....

The OP doesn't want to discuss, hash out, or even have a question answered as his original statement was countered with facts....multiple times. He makes inflammatory statements about Sal because he knows it will ruffle fearhers here. He wants to stir the pot. He wants an argument, but he wishes to debate using incorrect information with a dash of conspiracy theory mixed in for flavor..

Please do a quick forum search about what Sal, Eric, and all of Spyderco have done for the knife industry and how they conduct themselves and their business. Completely class act, and Sal is easily one of the most well respected pillars in the knife community, not just here on BFC but in the entire industry.

So far, the opening volley reads like,
"Ah Ha! Sal is a swindler! I have proof because I have extrapolated an undeniable answer because I have cherrypicked numbers to fit my narrative rather than be empirically valid!"
"No.. here's why (ABC)."
"I have been hacked! Cheated! An inside man is holding me down, the TRUTH down!"
"Quit saying dumb and inflammatory things...again."
"I'M BRINGING TRUTH TO THE MASSES!....SEE?..."
(A handful of people grumble about the price of Spyderco, MAP, and offer a wish list of what they wish was more afdordable).

This character is not worth exercising nobility over. This is a bit of ridiculous theater, and im sure it is being allowed to stretch out to give the OP more rope with which to hang himself so that he can go out falling on his own delusional sword.

that was rather quite entertaining to read, and sadly, an accurate retelling of events here on this thread --- kudos

 

[Legendary_Jarl]

I always thought those pterodactyl looking knives were hideous. I don't care for them and their price point or place of manufacture(i.e. China, the Taiwan one is ok). So I just don't buy them. That being said, if you were in the owner's shoes you'd probably increase prices as well. There are many thing to consider including inflation, wages, etc. He and his employees would probably want to maintain a standard of living just as you do. So it is up to him to sell his knives at whatever value he deems fair and it is up to his consumers to see if they are willing to pay it or not. Most people in this forum will probably pay it and that's ok.

 

[appliepie123]

Thank you all, Eli Chaps , Steely_Gunz , and all the others for responding and explaining in a level-headed and logical fashion. I appreciate the background information to the situation. It seems clear that the main issue here is that the OP is intentionally inflammatory for his own agenda and is not here for a sincere and genuine discussion. Rather he is here to simply invoke anger and outrage from the knife community. And to that, I commend you all for standing up for what you believe in and those who are not here to defend themselves (Sal Gelsser).

On a minor tangent, the reason for commenting and agreeing to the other poster was because I have sometimes felt like I have been attacked/given sarcastic and unnecessary responses that do not respond to a genuine question that I posed, thus making me feel the need too stand up for someone who may be simply asking a question kindheartedly and out of pure curiosity. Of course, it may be the way that I frame my own questions in other threads that come off as seditious, but I try to the best of my ability to avoid that. One example of this happening is a recent thread that I made asking about why hinderer would not do reblades. Then I was given the response "Can you post some pictures of your knife that's all sharpened out so we can judge them?" to my post stating "What about just from many years of hard use resulting in frequent sharpening and ultimately resulting in a blade that has been sharpened too far up to be sharpened again. In that scenario, CRK would offer blade replacement but Hinderer still would not" and another response of "It's good to use your imagination!" to my post stating "Simply put, it would be comforting knowing that one could heavily use their knife knowing that should anything happen, Hinderer would take care of them and make sure they have a usable knife." Responses like these, which are sarcastic and miss the point are unnecessary; they do not answer the original question that was posed and do not invoke any genuine discussion.

 

[David Richardson]

This thread inspired me to get out both knives. My Tenacious blade shows some use. My Rat 1 blade doesn't. I have much more expensive knives than both of these. I carry the Tenacious sometimes. I can't recall the last time I carried the Rat 1.

They have almost identical usable cutting edge (I can post a pic if people want), but the tenacious significantly longer in the handle and thicker than the tenacious despite having a thinner blade. It carries far less comfortably than the Tenacious for me.

I just opened and close both of them 10 times. The Tenacious is easier and nicer to open. The liner lock is easier for me to use. I've said this before on there, but the tenacious is comparable to $60-80 knives, except for the steel. The Rat 1 is a very nice $30 knife, but it carries like a $35 knife. The Tenacious is in a different category in terms of design, usability, carrying, and fit/finish.

The Rat 1 is a great knife for under $30. It's just not one I want to carry. That's the big difference for me.

 

[BilboBaggins]

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Thank you all, Eli Chaps , Steely_Gunz , and all the others for responding and explaining in a level-headed and logical fashion. I appreciate the background information to the situation. It seems clear that the main issue here is that the OP is intentionally inflammatory for his own agenda and is not here for a sincere and genuine discussion. Rather he is here to simply invoke anger and outrage from the knife community. And to that, I commend you all for standing up for what you believe in and those who are not here to defend themselves (Sal Gelsser).

On a minor tangent, the reason for commenting and agreeing to the other poster was because I have sometimes felt like I have been attacked/given sarcastic and unnecessary responses that do not respond to a genuine question that I posed, thus making me feel the need too stand up for someone who may be simply asking a question kindheartedly and out of pure curiosity. Of course, it may be the way that I frame my own questions in other threads that come off as seditious, but I try to the best of my ability to avoid that. One example of this happening is a recent thread that I made asking about why hinderer would not do reblades. Then I was given the response "Can you post some pictures of your knife that's all sharpened out so we can judge them?" to my post stating "What about just from many years of hard use resulting in frequent sharpening and ultimately resulting in a blade that has been sharpened too far up to be sharpened again. In that scenario, CRK would offer blade replacement but Hinderer still would not" and another response of "It's good to use your imagination!" to my post stating "Simply put, it would be comforting knowing that one could heavily use their knife knowing that should anything happen, Hinderer would take care of them and make sure they have a usable knife." Responses like these, which are sarcastic and miss the point are unnecessary; they do not answer the original question that was posed and do not invoke any genuine discussion.

You seem like a class act and a fine addition to the forum. I appreciate your thoughtful responses and look forward to hearing more from you as time goes on. I like the cut of your jib.

 

[stabman]

The OP supports cloners and thieves, his opinion is moot IMO.

It's more like "moo", as in a cow's opinion.
It doesn't matter.

 

[Oloung1]

....Why is it the Rat 1 did not increase in price at all over the last decade? NO ONE HAS PROVIDED A PLAUSIBLE ANSWER TO THIS

Question: Why is the ganzo g727m 50% cheaper than the Rat 1 in the usa?
Fact: Bears. Beets. Benchmades.

 

[JokersFaceLifter]

and really the bottom line is Spyderco can charge whatever they want for their wares, if you don't like it, don't buy it

P.S. and Sal knows this, but chooses not to charge 900 dollars on a production folder, cause no one would buy it