Spyderco Mule Team Details

TrailingEdge said:
Goodness gracious. I shouldn't have to say this, but ...

NO WHINING!

There.

The Mule project is a boon to our community. IMO, it is the most interesting thing to happen in the world of knives in recent years.

And, for the project to work, it has to work for Sal & Co. They have a business to run. That comes first. The Mule project has to fit in with everything else.

I suggest that we all just cherish the contribution that the project is and let it work as it happens. I acknowledge that I woulld be disappointed if I did not get in a particular issue, but I would still benefit from the shared experiences of the community.

BT
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+1

As I head out the door, with my T-1 Mule on my belt :D
 
Hi Vassili,

Sorry about your disappointment. I can't tell if your reprimanding or seeking more inside info. In the case of the former, I will considered myself reprimanded. If your are curious as to what is going on, I can provide that information.

nozh2002 said:
It is rather disappointment because this process is so slow. I rather prefer Spyderco to hold specification on size and geometry and let anybody else to produce this knife - like Crucible itself with their own HT, then wait for each steel (sometime not interesting at all) to came in a half year.
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I am providing the project as fast as I can. I do have a "day job" of helping to run a small family business. We are getting steel from wherever possible with many "in-the-works" so the process is more controllable.

We didn't create a "one design" for a contest. I just created a basic design that would serve the majority of those interested. It's a 40,000 year old blade shape, at a useable size, with a "Stretch" handle.

Anyone can make their own knife. We have no patents or trademarks on the design. I would prefer that if others made a mule team model, that they leave out our round hole trademark.

Crucible has indicated that they would be interested in our project, but as we are doing it. They have not indicated that they are interested in "building" their own knife. In addition to the Crucible steels that I've mentioned, They also have two new experimental steels that have a chance of becoming mule team pieces.

nozh2002 said:
This is from possible industry benchmark turns into some boring waiting line for years. I can do same myself faster.
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While Spyderco has created one or two industry benchmarks, that wa s not the intention of this project. It is an offering from me to like minded steel junky's to provide something that might be of interst, but is not readily available, at the lowest cost possible. Experience could be shared and knowledge created. It is not a good business project as the margins are low and the labor of the "sell" to the foundries is time consuming.

nozh2002 said:
Again this is mismanaged. Every steel and knife producer should be free to join the effort so we will have really everybody compete under same rules and in same position. I like mule in INFI in CPM 3V from Fehrman and A2 from Bark River. Also it will be grate opportunity for Crucible, Sandvic, Hitachi to introduce new steel and openly test how is it fit in the knife market.
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Every steel manufactured is free and invited to join in the effort. I agree that it is an opportunity for each to "show their stuff". I have used this discussion when trying to convince them to make a batch of exotic steel. I have neither the time or the funds to travel from foundry to foundry. I use emails to "sell them" on our project, often through trading companies.

I really cannot accept more responsibility that I have already accepted. I cannot do the job of creating and maintaining the project with other knife companies or foundries. Pehaps you might want to take on that project?

nozh2002 said:
But what it is now rather disappointed then excited...

Thanks, Vassili.
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thanx much for your thoughts. Hopefully we can create more excitememt in the future and less disappointment.

sal

-----------------------------------------------------------------

"We are all teachers and we are all students"
 
Idea is - to have certain blade design suitable for testing and easy to produce for anyone and not quite useful for other then testing thing, so it will not compete with main production (I am not sure mule does mutch this criteria and currently more or less like exclusive knife for steel junkies). So anyone can do this - it may be part of R&D for steel-makers (I think marketing guys from this companies will like this idea).

Like right now in computer industry before releasing new hardware you have to meat certain benchmarks (in terms of testing - certain regulated test procedures).

However someone need to manage it to certify that testing was done correctly and no cheating. Some benchmark holder. And while design and everything is open you have to pay for certification - this may be business opportunity for Spyderco to became standard holder. Spyderco certainly has all the best chances to be such a holder - it has reputation and visibility among consumers as well as among producers to push for this, which is very needed I guess.

I can declare myself Standard holder with the same effect if I declare myself Czar of Russia - it will be just a bad joke. But "Sal Glesser Standard" sounds different.

Anyway I think producing this blade should not be only Spyderco effort, however standard holding, certification, promotion - this is what Spyderco really can do with great success to everybody benefits. This can revolutionize industry ans set another benchmark by Spyderco (in terms of achivement), instead of having side unprofitable project as it is right now.

Again I think this is an opportunity for Spyderco to raze industry standards again.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Well, in computer industry there is certain standard programs (called benchmarks) which you may run on your computer to see how fast it is in different tasks. It has standard sequence of floating point calculations or database queries or disk access etc...

In this case we may have certain standard blade geometry and standard cutting tasks - 1" manila rope cutting, 20' of cardboard etc. To test steel performance this way. So for each steel and HT from different manufacturers we will have results to compare instead of usual marketing mantras.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
Idea is - to have certain blade design suitable for testing and easy to produce for anyone and not quite useful for other then testing thing, so it will not compete with main production (I am not sure mule does mutch this criteria and currently more or less like exclusive knife for steel junkies). So anyone can do this - it may be part of R&D for steel-makers (I think marketing guys from this companies will like this idea).
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Whose idea is this? Yours? Why are you free to impose your ideas and desires on a commercial product? Who, other than yourself, appointed you to make these judgments and hand down these demands?

nozh2002 said:
Anyway I think producing this blade should not be only Spyderco effort, however standard holding, certification, promotion - this is what Spyderco really can do with great success to everybody benefits. This can revolutionize industry ans set another benchmark by Spyderco (in terms of achivement), instead of having side unprofitable project as it is right now.
Click to expand...

You may think so, but I think you put your finger on the nub of the matter when you wrote:

nozh2002 said:
I can declare myself Standard holder with the same effect if I declare myself Czar of Russia - it will be just a bad joke. But "Sal Glesser Standard" sounds different.
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You have already declared yourself the arbiter and holder of the standard in your post, rebuking the company that generously initiated a venture that surely will either deliver no profit to the company or at least will consume time and resources that could be devoted to a far more profitable enterprise. Perhaps you should simply go ahead and declare yourself Czar of Russia.
 
JNewell said:
Whose idea is this? Yours? Why are you free to impose your ideas and desires on a commercial product? Who, other than yourself, appointed you to make these judgments and hand down these demands?

You may think so, but I think you put your finger on the nub of the matter when you wrote:

You have already declared yourself the arbiter and holder of the standard in your post, rebuking the company that generously initiated a venture that surely will either deliver no profit to the company or at least will consume time and resources that could be devoted to a far more profitable enterprise. Perhaps you should simply go ahead and declare yourself Czar of Russia.
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I do not see reason why to go personal here. I have my opinion you have yours. Have a good day.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Put up, or shut up, Vassili....

Make your own "Muile Team" knives, without the Spydie hole, of course. Make them from every high-priced, high performance steel on the project. Convince foundries to invent new steels just for YOUR "Mule." Sell them at a loss. Think you can do it better? Go for it! Good luck! Oh, and make them by the HUNDREDS!

I want to personally thank Sal, once again, for going above and beyond the call for initiating such a fantastic project. .... and, I admire his tolerance for .... odd .... comments from those who have NO appreciation for the effort being put forth to make the Mule Team successful!

So. There's the challenge, Vassili. Either quit whining and do it better, or appreciate the tremendous effort that Sal and Crew have put into this project, and continue to invest, and "deal" with the time frame of each model, but above all: enjoy the Spirit of the Mule Team!
 
Do not worry I did shut up already and will not bother you little cult anymore.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
It is rather disappointment because this process is so slow. I rather prefer Spyderco to hold specification on size and geometry and let anybody else to produce this knife - like Crucible itself with their own HT, then wait for each steel (sometime not interesting at all) to came in a half year.

This is from possible industry benchmark turns into some boring waiting line for years. I can do same myself faster.

Again this is mismanaged. Every steel and knife producer should be free to join the effort so we will have really everybody compete under same rules and in same position. I like mule in INFI in CPM 3V from Fehrman and A2 from Bark River. Also it will be grate opportunity for Crucible, Sandvic, Hitachi to introduce new steel and openly test how is it fit in the knife market.

But what it is now rather disappointed then excited...

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

So I don't get all "fired up" again .........;)
This is all I have to say about the above "quote" ......... :thumbdn: .. :grumpy:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Quote.....
Orginally Posted by TrailingEdge:

Goodness gracious. I shouldn't have to say this, but ...

NO WHINING!

There.

The Mule project is a boon to our community. IMO, it is the most interesting thing to happen in the world of knives in recent years.

And, for the project to work, it has to work for Sal & Co. They have a business to run. That comes first. The Mule project has to fit in with everything else.

I suggest that we all just cherish the contribution that the project is and let it work as it happens. I acknowledge that I woulld be disappointed if I did not get in a particular issue, but I would still benefit from the shared experiences of the community.

BT

HaroldB said:
.......................................

+1

As I head out the door, with my T-1 Mule on my belt :D
Click to expand...

And, my comment on the two above ............
+2 ......... :thumbup: ...:D
 
Remember friends,
Other's have a right to voice differing views :)

No matter how obnoxious they may be ... :D:rolleyes:
 
Hi Vassili,

I like your idea, and I think it is a good idea.

I also appreciate that you are sharing your thoughts.

It is also true that it is a possible opportunity. It is just beyond our ability, at this time, to take on the project.

It is mostly Eric and I that would handle this type of project, and with all that's going on right now, we would have to drop another "opportunity" to pick this one up.

As you said, don't take it personal.

Thanx for the thoughts.

sal
 
Does anything ever rattle Sal? :) He must be the calmest man on earth. I admire that. He diffused this issue, and diffused an issue with a poster on spyderco.com. In addition to admiring the craftsmanship of Spyderco knives, I am impressed with the people running the show.
 
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