spyderco paramilitary 2 outdoor lock test
- Thread starter zuzja
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Perhaps, but I'm having a hard time trying to imagine what real world scenarios might equate to spine whack testings. I means, I suppose if we were discussing some fantasy self-defense scenario in which you parry a guy's pipe iron with the spine of your folding knife it might be somewhat relevant, if not exactly on the same planet.
The closest thing I can think of would be stabbing into a tree with your knife, as it would be very unpleasant if the knife closed on your fingers while you were doing that:thumbdn:. However, I still feel that stabbing still wouldn't have the same level of impact in the right direction as a sharp spine whack. Even that Gayle Bradley which presumably to some would have a "faulty" lock didn't close up on me when I stabbed it into compressed cardboard.
My daily use has never caused the lock to fail on any of my folders. And if my coworkers can use their SAKs without a lock for years, I don't see it becoming an issue for EDC use. To me, I feel the lock is simply there to keep the knife open. Anything else is really just extra.
I understand your view of the spine whack/tap not testing any real life function. But if the lock is really that irrelevant, why aren't we just using slipjoints, as you said?
The compression lock was created to be a strong lock. They could have used a simple liner lock, but they chose to make a lock that can stand up to more use/abuse. So if you're going to make a lock and tout it as being able to hold x amount of weight, then it ought to impress us.
In case anybody missed that: this isn't a criticism of the Para 2; this is for those who say, "But I wouldn't do that in real life..." I sure hope you wouldn't. I wouldn't.
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Because finding a knife with premium steels and decent handle materials and also has a slipjoint is so rare that you quite literally have to go out of your way to find one for whatever reason(i.e. legal status).
Again, spine whacking and holding X amount of weight seems to be two different things. A spine whack closed my ZT easily, but bracing the blade on a hard surface and attempting to muscle it closed did absolutely nothing, and if there was a standardized method of testing lock strength by manufacturers, I'd imagine it would be the latter.. I would also think that stabbing would generate less shock than a spine whack(unless you're stabbing concrete).
So again, in real world use, I cannot for the life of me figure out in which situation you would need a lock that resists the shock of having the blade being struck on the spine.
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This is, undoubtedly, a very odd failure. But lock science is...well...somewhat mystical still. We used to theorize that a perfect "whack" could bow the liner slightly and thus change the actual alignment of the lock with the tang. In the compression lock, however, I can't imagine why that would be the case. The force applied to the tang should provide a new area of friction (between the spacer and the liner) which should have compensated. And besides, I suspect these theories have advanced somewhat in my absence.
Well, let me know if there are any good definitive conclusion.
As per the subject of spinewhacks being unrealistic versus let's all just use slipjoints, that's a false dilemma.
It's one thing to say the test doesn't represent real-life lock use and quite another to say locks are pointless entirely. The spine whack is not the reason for locks to exist. When blades get caught in thick materials like wood or cardboard, when we pull away the blade, if not locked, can close on your fingers. This is by far the most common EDC-related use for locks--not sudden impacts.
Nonetheless, I actually do enjoy spine whack testing, because it's amusing intellectually. I ruffled some feathers some years ago when I demonstrated that a CRKT's M16 liner could stand up to basically anything I could throw at it with some rather severe tests. I suppose it was at the liner lock's low point in popularity.
Well, let me know if there are any good definitive conclusion.
As per the subject of spinewhacks being unrealistic versus let's all just use slipjoints, that's a false dilemma.
It's one thing to say the test doesn't represent real-life lock use and quite another to say locks are pointless entirely. The spine whack is not the reason for locks to exist. When blades get caught in thick materials like wood or cardboard, when we pull away the blade, if not locked, can close on your fingers. This is by far the most common EDC-related use for locks--not sudden impacts.
Nonetheless, I actually do enjoy spine whack testing, because it's amusing intellectually. I ruffled some feathers some years ago when I demonstrated that a CRKT's M16 liner could stand up to basically anything I could throw at it with some rather severe tests. I suppose it was at the liner lock's low point in popularity.
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Get a friction folder. YOU are the lock.
Spyderco friction folder... Intresting concept... but where would you put spidy hole?
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I can think of a number of real world scenarios where you may inadvertently hit the spine of a knife fairly hard against something when trying to remove the blade from material in which it is stuck. I cannot think of a single reason any creature with intelligence higher than that of a gorilla would hold a folding knife at the extreme rear of the handle when attempting to chop wood. So, to me, over-strike tests are totally meaningless and, if they induce a condition which later causes the knife to fail when spine whacked, then the whole test series was BS.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twisted up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twisted up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam
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Where would you hold it Paul? Oh, you wouldn't use a folder to chop.
Oh, and I use my SG E4 to chop half inch diseased mango branches often. I guess that makes me as smart as a gorilla. I would never have thought I was as smart as that.
Sal Glesser
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Spyderco friction folder... Intresting concept... but where would you put spidy hole?
Hi Jamppa,
I have a friction folde made by a custom maker in Belgium (Filip) that is actually quite nice. The hole is more trademark than function, but the knife is a nice user. Carry method becomes the challenge in a friction folder, for safety reasons. A sheath of some type is one solution.
sal
Ankerson
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I can think of a number of real world scenarios where you may inadvertently hit the spine of a knife fairly hard against something when trying to remove the blade from material in which it is stuck. I cannot think of a single reason any creature with intelligence higher than that of a gorilla would hold a folding knife at the extreme rear of the handle when attempting to chop wood. So, to me, over-strike tests are totally meaningless and, if they induce a condition which later causes the knife to fail when spine whacked, then the whole test series was BS.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twisted up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam
Interesting....
I guess you don't quite understand Physics then.
The farther back you hold the knife when chopping the more power you have chopping.
It's basic common since also.
Trying to chop with a 4" folder holding it right up by the blade would be pretty useless, almost no power. Move your hand back and flick your wrist while chopping and it takes much less effort.
Personally I wouldn't chop wood with a 4" folder unless I had to, but then I have large FB's for that.
In a situation that I had to make cuts through wood with a small folder I would baton the knife through it, not chop with it because it would be faster.
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Where would you hold it Paul? Oh, you wouldn't use a folder to chop.
Oh, and I use my SG E4 to chop half inch diseased mango branches often. I guess that makes me as smart as a gorilla. I would never have thought I was as smart as that.
You hold it at the end of the handle? I would think that that implies letting the blade pivot where you grip it-is that right? Just doesn't seem as secure. Although it is more forceful.
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Please, don't go out and try spine whacking your knives repeatedly at home. One whack will do enough to satisfy your curiosity. Doing this repeatedly will definitely increase the wear between the liner and the tang and basically advance the age of the knife.
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I have a pretty good grasp of physics. I also have some common sense, which sometimes tells me that the "most efficient" way to do something may downright dangerous, both to the person and the tool. To me, this would be one of those times. A grip that far to the rear of the handle is inherently insecure. Even without creating the perfect environment for an overstrike, the insecure grip, coupled that with the higher velocity it allows the blade to attain is a recipe for disaster. You, of course are free to continue doing things your way.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twisted up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam
Sal Glesser
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shunsui
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I chop wood with an axe or hatchet.
+1 good advice.
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I chop wood with an axe or hatchet.
+2
Knives (especially folders) are cutters, not choppers.
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Nope, I don't let it pivot where I grip it. I also grip it about 2-3 inches from the end.
I also have a friction folder made by Filip.
I chop wood with an axe or hatchet.
Two things.
First: When I just go around not really intending to do major work, I don't carry a lot of tools with me. It's just a walk around inspecting things. I just happen to sometimes find diseased branches or branches damaged by livestock.
Second: Green branches are a different kind of wood from what you seem to be implying.
Why is it that you guys seem to think that your way of doing things is the only correct way?