Spyderco price increases and higher MAP pricing

[Leftytwogunz]

The competition at the 100-200 range is getting bigger every year. With spyderco and BM in particular raising prices so much, the new comer china brands.keep looking more appealing.

Not to me, at all.
There is much more involved in the value of a product than just final price. These China production companies can offer lower prices because they are built with modern day slave labor.

If you need a Spyderco Military it doesn't matter if the price is $13 higher, $27 higher, or $42 higher, you need the item. If some of us are tallying up the dollars on 40 or 100 luxury knife purchases next year then I guess it makes sense to make price a main factor, because individual knife characteristics certainly are not the primary concern. It's just an obsession, that some of us choose to feed, with anything.
As for me, I get great happiness from my USA made Spydercos and wish I had gotten into them many years back. I'm not buying a single piece of cutlery, knowingly, from China and as long as a Spyderco PM2 doesn't wind up at $900 next year I'll keep supporting Spyderco.

 

[Leftytwogunz]

As I said before, 5% in a vacuum isn't much. It's the competition that creates the issue. Do I spend $135 on a Para 2 with G10 scales and S30V, or do I spend my money on a Steel Will Cutjack that nets me M390 for $10 less?

The $10 extra isn't the issue, the aggressive pricing of competitors is.

Well, which knife do you need more? If neither, then I suppose we should take other things into consideration rather than start the decision with price.

One is made in the USA with good quality control by people who speak our language, and you could easily return it or have it repaired if something went wrong. The purchase would be supporting our own economy. The other is made in a country that has manufactured poisonous pet food and kids toys with led paint on them (for the US market) in recent years. Do I trust them to use the steel they say and to treat it properly? Do I think the purchase helps any of the workers that built them? Not personally.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Well, which knife do you need more? If neither, then I suppose we should take other things into consideration rather than start the decision with price.

One is made in the USA with good quality control by people who speak our language, and you could easily return it or have it repaired if something went wrong. The purchase would be supporting our own economy. The other is made in a country that has manufactured poisonous pet food and kids toys with led paint on them (for the US market) in recent years. Do I trust them to use the steel they say and to treat it properly? Do I think the purchase helps any of the workers that built them? Not personally.

But that's not the discussion we're having, nor the point of your original post. You painted the issue as the 5% jump being a financial hardship, my point is that it's not hardship, it's a contributing factor in decision making. No one is going broke over it, but when I want a new knife value is a big factor and this decision absolutely hurts the value of Spyderco knives in comparison to their competitors.

 

[dkolds]

Effective January 1, 2018 per Facebook post by National Knives, LLC an hour ago:

"Stock up on your favorite Spyderco knives. Come January 1, 2018 there will not only be the yearly price increases, but also a new Minimum Advertised Price policy (MAP) that will go into effect. Currently MAP pricing is 40% below MSRP. Jan.1, that will be 35%. That's a 5% increase on top of the yearly prices increases!"​

I've been buying fewer Spyderco knives since MAP enforcement of I think two years ago and now it'll be fewer still.

Fewer models and higher prices sounds like a smart business decision. We’ve been spoiled.
My Spydercos will be worth more.
If freedom means anything at all to you don’t buy Chinese, even Spyderco Chinese. They are still communists and persecuting Christians, and I still have a Conscience.

 

[Casinostocks]

^ You may want to edit that last sentence. There is no place for that anywhere on this Site other than the Political Subforum for which you will require a paid membership of Gold or higher.

 

[ToxicBot11]

If you need a Spyderco Military it doesn't matter if the price is $13 higher, $27 higher, or $42 higher, you need the item.

And to some of us it does matter..if you have stacks of B. Gates type mad cash sitting around well good for you. Some of us don't..

 

[Gadgetman7]

The MAP increase doesn’t directly give Spyderco more money so it’s unlikely any employees will receive a raise because of this increase. I believe it’s a prestige/margin move to increase margins for B&M and position the brand. I understand the move and see the strategy.

However, I believe that this is price fixing regardless of what the courts have ruled. Further, most customers have no B&M stores available and this move only hurts them. Frankly, B&M stores are dying because they don’t compete well with online companies. New business models are painful for many and I think it’s a shame that Spyderco has chosen to support an outdated business model at the expense of their customers.

Finally, MAP seems to be infecting the marketplace. I can’t think of a higher end brand that doesn’t enforce it. The only recourse we have is to stop or slow purchases until it affects their bottom line.

Sal and Eric seem like nice folks and I wish them well but I’ll vote with my wallet.

 

[SpySmasher]

Is this a ty-post, or what?

Yes.

Knife addicts like us will find the extra cash.

Based on multiple testimonies here, that's not true. At least for many buyers. It surely can't be the case that everyone here has unlimited funds for knives. We all have a knife budget, right? If that's the case, then by definition a price increase will mean less Spydercos bought.

Whether that's good for Spyderco, I can't say. Only they know. Also, it must be said as a matter of course, it's a good thing for knife enthusiasts if Spyderco is healthy as a company. They are a pillar of the industry. However, it is also a matter of course that for any individual knife enthusiast, fewer knives bought is a BAD thing. So we should all commiserate with each other and have sympathy for those who (like me) will probably have to skip on a knife or two next year that they might have otherwise bought at a lower price.

As much as I love them overall, Spyderco is NOT unfailingly a good value. Most of us have passed on some otherwise desirable knives simply because they cost too much.

 

[AF]

Well, which knife do you need more? If neither, then I suppose we should take other things into consideration rather than start the decision with price.

One is made in the USA with good quality control by people who speak our language, and you could easily return it or have it repaired if something went wrong. The purchase would be supporting our own economy. The other is made in a country that has manufactured poisonous pet food and kids toys with led paint on them (for the US market) in recent years. Do I trust them to use the steel they say and to treat it properly? Do I think the purchase helps any of the workers that built them? Not personally.

Steel Will is an American company and the Cutjack in M390 is made in Italy.

 

[SpySmasher]

Steel Will is an American company and the Cutjack in M390 is made in Italy.

Ouch.

 

[stonproject]

And to some of us it does matter..if you have stacks of B. Gates type mad cash sitting around well good for you. Some of us don't..

I used to buy up delicas as gifts a lot at $55, but as it nears closer to $80 its not a good deal to me anymore. For $120 I can start getting titanium handles and super steel blades from kizer.

Spydercos japan line fit a niche in the market. Quality knives with decent materials at a fair price. As they get more expensive its become decent materials at a high price (kinda like crkt).

At the end of the day, everyone will vote with their wallets.

 

[stonproject]

Not to me, at all.
There is much more involved in the value of a product than just final price. These China production companies can offer lower prices because they are built with modern day slave labor.

If you need a Spyderco Military it doesn't matter if the price is $13 higher, $27 higher, or $42 higher, you need the item. If some of us are tallying up the dollars on 40 or 100 luxury knife purchases next year then I guess it makes sense to make price a main factor, because individual knife characteristics certainly are not the primary concern. It's just an obsession, that some of us choose to feed, with anything.
As for me, I get great happiness from my USA made Spydercos and wish I had gotten into them many years back. I'm not buying a single piece of cutlery, knowingly, from China and as long as a Spyderco PM2 doesn't wind up at $900 next year I'll keep supporting Spyderco.

You are also supporting the Chinese in a round about way by buying spyderco because they have a Chinese factory. Even if you only buy their usa made products you're still supporting their business practices by giving them your money. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[powernoodle]

but also a new Minimum Advertised Price policy (MAP) that will go into effect

Screw that. I stopped buying Benchmade when they did that, and I can stop buying Spyderco. Vive la Kershaw!

 

[miltmaldo]

The new CF Para3 s90v $210 who's buying

 

[sharp_edge]

Not to me, at all.
There is much more involved in the value of a product than just final price. These China production companies can offer lower prices because they are built with modern day slave labor.

If you need a Spyderco Military it doesn't matter if the price is $13 higher, $27 higher, or $42 higher, you need the item. If some of us are tallying up the dollars on 40 or 100 luxury knife purchases next year then I guess it makes sense to make price a main factor, because individual knife characteristics certainly are not the primary concern. It's just an obsession, that some of us choose to feed, with anything.
As for me, I get great happiness from my USA made Spydercos and wish I had gotten into them many years back. I'm not buying a single piece of cutlery, knowingly, from China and as long as a Spyderco PM2 doesn't wind up at $900 next year I'll keep supporting Spyderco.

This is just your thinking and you expressed it clearly, which I respect. However, I am not sure if everyone or even the majority people on this site share what you just said. I am a big fan of Spyderco Military and I own more Spyderco folders than any other brands, but those numbers of increased prices that you listed would make a difference for me. I can live with the price of $160 for a s30v blade and g10 scales Military but there is no way I am going to pay $200 for it.

For most people here, it is not primarily a matter of "need" but more of "want." For me, whether I "want" a knife or not, its price certainly plays a major role in my decision on purchasing it or not. The discussed price increase might be trivial if one is going to buy just one or two Spyderco knives per year, for those who basically want to try out almost every new Spyderco, I'm afraid the accumulated cost will no longer be negligible.

 

[BD_01]

Sadly, the annual price increases exceed the annual percentage of my income increase. This is applicable to all the usual knife brands that do this each year.

Me thinks I will only be buying Spydercos during the annual clearance.

 

[minimize]

Fewer models and higher prices sounds like a smart business decision. We’ve been spoiled.
My Spydercos will be worth more.
If freedom means anything at all to you don’t buy Chinese, even Spyderco Chinese. They are still communists and persecuting Christians, and I still have a Conscience.

Wow. Good broad generalization. You win the internet.

 

[John_0917]

So does amazon still get to ignore MAP while routinely selling fakes?

 

[whp]

Everyone keeps talking about an increase of the MAP from 60 to 65% being a 5% increase in price. It s actually an 8.3% increase. And that s if there is no increase in msrp. If that is raised to give the Spyderco employees a raise to keep up with inflation, that s another 2%.
The salaries at my work went up 2% this year and the year before. I expect the same for 2018. If all my expenses go up 8.3% next year, I ll have to get another job to maintain my lifestyle or quit saving money. If just a few items go up 8.3 %, perhaps I can choose to avoid those items.

Now to specifics. When Spyderco instituted an MAP policy, it amplified a problem I was starting to have with my favorite knife company. Prices were going higher and relative value was decreasing. The older model knives such as Military, Paramilitary2, Endura, Delica, Manix2 and Native5 were still fairly attractively priced, if somewhat higher than before MAP. Most of the newer models, however, were much more expensive. (The exception being the Bradley s.) I m having a hard, time supporting my old standby company and a MAP increase will not make it easier.
If indeed the MAP increase goes entirely to support the retailers rather than directly to the company , for the sake of making Spyderco more competitive with Benchmade and Kai with the retailers, I believe that is poor policy. As Benchmade loses sales volume due to MAP, high prices in general, and irregular quality , raising knife prices so much above inflation costs will simply decrease Spyderco s sales. At least among a high percentage of the knowledgeable buyers. The retailer may make a little more per sale, but the numbers will be down. And the soul of the company as an outstanding value producer will be lost.

I have tremendous respect and admiration for Sal Glesser. I just hope Spyderco rethinks this decision on MAP and rights the ship.

 

[kreole]

So does amazon still get to ignore MAP while routinely selling fakes?

Seems so. Throw on top a 5% discount I get for having an Amazon CC and free shipping, and MAP doesn't make me go to any other seller for new Spydercos. Jet, owned by Walmart so another big player trodding on the little guys, also sells some models for under MAP (but you have to log in to see them), something a lot of smaller online dealers won't do.