Spyderco Siren Lock Issue

Surfingringo Surfingringo If you guys are working on a CQI, please also look into the issue of lock coming loose when gripping the handle with moderate force.
Might be more prevalent with certain hand sizes, i wear M size glove, i can make the lock disengage at least 1/2 way when i grip it hammer grip, to the point the blade is ratting up and down.

Edit to note: Making the spring tension harder doesn't help this issue, I've tried. The lockbar fulcrum(stop pin) is too far forward and the hand has too much leverage at the lock release. I suspect the position of the fulcrum needs to be changed.
 
insta9ves said:
Surfingringo Surfingringo If you guys are working on a CQI, please also look into the issue of lock coming loose when gripping the handle with moderate force.
Might be more prevalent with certain hand sizes, i wear M size glove, i can make the lock disengage at least 1/2 way when i grip it hammer grip, to the point the blade is ratting up and down.

Edit to note: Making the spring tension harder doesn't help this issue, I've tried. The lockbar fulcrum(stop pin) is too far forward and the hand has too much leverage at the lock release. I suspect the position of the fulcrum needs to be changed.
Click to expand...
I wonder if a Boye dent wouldn’t solve that.
 
Thinking back on my Siren use, there were a couple of times when I noticed the lock move while using. I attributed that to my hand position depressing the lock bar but I now realize this issue is what was happening. I used the siren in the yard to cut some tough vines against the wooden backyard fence. The vines were in a hard to get to place and I was in a position where I had to cut hard with pressure using just the tip of the blade. I could feel the lock move under my palm. Not a confidence inspiring feeling, especially now that I know what the cause was.

I'll have to take a look at it later today but if the lock stays disengaged after this happens, and one does not notice it, this could be a safety issue. I don't think we should have to worry about our knives having the lock disengage unless we mean to disengage them, especially when doing what seems to be fairly normal cutting.
 
I tried to get my Siren apart for pics since mine does not seem to exhibit this issue and I am embarrassed to say that it would not come apart. I had all the screws out and it should have come apart easily at that point, but it was like all the screws were still in place. Open, closed, pressing down on the lockbar, not pressing down on the lockbar…I tried everything I could think short of prying the scales apart. I'm pretty sure I know how a lockback works and there should not have been an issue. Not sure what to think at this point.
 
on_the_edge said:
I tried to get my Siren apart for pics since mine does not seem to exhibit this issue and I am embarrassed to say that it would not come apart. I had all the screws out and it should have come apart easily at that point, but it was like all the screws were still in place. Open, closed, pressing down on the lockbar, not pressing down on the lockbar…I tried everything I could think short of prying the scales apart. I'm pretty sure I know how a lockback works and there should not have been an issue. Not sure what to think at this point.
Click to expand...
I seem to remember someone like Shabaz needing to kind of pry it apart.
 
insta9ves said:
Surfingringo Surfingringo If you guys are working on a CQI, please also look into the issue of lock coming loose when gripping the handle with moderate force.
Might be more prevalent with certain hand sizes, i wear M size glove, i can make the lock disengage at least 1/2 way when i grip it hammer grip, to the point the blade is ratting up and down.

Edit to note: Making the spring tension harder doesn't help this issue, I've tried. The lockbar fulcrum(stop pin) is too far forward and the hand has too much leverage at the lock release. I suspect the position of the fulcrum needs to be changed.
Click to expand...
I thought this is what was happening with mine over the spring and summer. Just thought it was the way I was gripping the knife. And while I can still hit the lock bar and make it move a little based on my grip, without a doubt the issue I experienced in use was the pressure on the blade disengaging the lock.

Surfingringo said:
I wonder if a Boye dent wouldn’t solve that.
Click to expand...
I'd love to see one on the Siren! Gotta get this lock thing worked out first though...

Sal Glesser said:
It doesn't appear to be a safety issue. But it is something we're working on. My guess is the angle might be off by a degree or 2.

sal
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After messing with it a bit more, I agree that it is not a safety issue in the sense that when the cutting pressure is released on the blade, the lock re-engages. That said, it is still hard to fully trust a lock that does something like this. The lock seems solid in all other ways, I even gave it a couple of good spine whacks. At this point though, I wouldn't trust the Siren as a back up emergency SD blade because I wouldn't trust it for hard stabbing. I'm not willing to test a lock that will disengage like this in a stabbing test with my hand. This is really sad as it limits the do everything robust EDC roll that is the Siren's claim to fame. If a knife can't stab it might as well be a slip joint, which is fine, just not what it is advertised.


Even under different grips and putting the pressure at the base of the blade, the lock moves around in a really uncomfortable way. I guess I do most of they EDC tasks in a slicing motion rather than hard downward push cuts. In these pics I'm making sure not to be hitting the lock with my palm.

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I'd love to know what percentage of Sirens have this issue. Obviously, lots of folks here and on the Spyderco forum are reporting it, but I wonder how many Sirens don't have the issue. It reminds me of the original Maxamet PM2s where some of the knives had a curve towards the tip while others did not.

craytab craytab , how much downward pressure—say on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being max force--are you putting on the Siren in the above pics to get it to do that?
 
NVM...
Didn't read the whole thread.
 
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on_the_edge said:
I'd love to know what percentage of Sirens have this issue. Obviously, lots of folks here and on the Spyderco forum are reporting it, but I wonder how many Sirens don't have the issue. It reminds me of the original Maxamet PM2s where some of the knives had a curve towards the tip while others did not.

craytab craytab , how much downward pressure—say on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being max force--are you putting on the Siren in the above pics to get it to do that?
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I'd say 7/10 to get the lock to completely pop open. Much less to get it to move around.

Right now it looks like 80-90% of people responding here and on spyderco's forum are reporting some degree of this problem. Far from a representative sample but looks like more than a few lemons.
 
on_the_edge said:
I tried to get my Siren apart for pics since mine does not seem to exhibit this issue and I am embarrassed to say that it would not come apart. I had all the screws out and it should have come apart easily at that point, but it was like all the screws were still in place. Open, closed, pressing down on the lockbar, not pressing down on the lockbar…I tried everything I could think short of prying the scales apart. I'm pretty sure I know how a lockback works and there should not have been an issue. Not sure what to think at this point.
Click to expand...
Yes, needs to be pried apart as Craytab stated.
If I remember it's the lockbar pivot pin that's the culprit being sort of pressed in.
It will come apart though, use something softer than the liners though because they will get messed up using anything metallic.
 
I was cutting notches in wood with my Siren and noticed the same lock movement others have. I’m just curious how this will be handled. While it may not be a safety issue, I still see it as an design flaw.
 
DJC72 said:
I’m just curious how this will be handled. While it may not be a safety issue, I still see it as an design flaw.
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Me too. Watching this thread and the one on the Spyderco company forum patiently. Hopefully more of a response will come soon. At least let us know where things are at.
 
We're still studying the issues. I'm sure than anyone that wants to send their knife in is welcome to, but we do not yet have the problem sorted. We have a good reputation of taking care of our customers and this will be no exception.

sal
 
craytab said:
There is a thread over on the Spyderco company forum where people are reporting this issue as well. Looks widespread. Surfingringo Surfingringo
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Just to make sure I’m understanding you correctly, and I apologize if I’m not, but when you say “widespread”, do you mean early to current production?
 
Sal Glesser said:
We're still studying the issues. I'm sure than anyone that wants to send their knife in is welcome to, but we do not yet have the problem sorted. We have a good reputation of taking care of our customers and this will be no exception.

sal
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Excellent. Thank you for responding!

Lee D said:
Just to make sure I’m understanding you correctly, and I apologize if I’m not, but when you say “widespread”, do you mean early to current production?
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No, sorry I wasn't more clear. I meant in more of a "not just a lemon or two" sort of sense. These have been out about a year so I am not sure there is really an early vs current production run.
 
craytab said:
No, sorry I wasn't more clear. I meant in more of a "not just a lemon or two" sort of sense. These have been out about a year so I am not sure there is really an early vs current production run.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying. I wasn’t sure how long the Siren had even been in production, I just know it’s been on my radar since I first saw the announcement. I’ll wait patiently, if there’s anyone I have faith in sorting out something like this, it’s the Spyderco crew. :thumbsup:
 
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