spyderco vg10 vs cold steel aus 8

B

bertosknives

Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
390
Ok this is bothering me why do people say vg10 is so good but bash cold steel for using aus 8 I have knives from each company in those steels and I can't tell the difference in edge holding I just don't get it. when people actually take the time to test the steels like the awesome job ankerson has done in the knife review section the two steels held an edge the same amount of cuts so what gives do people just hear someone say vg10 is better and then repat it on the forums because using my knives with those steels I can't tell the difference.
 
Okay, so, why do you care?

I mean, we could go over the inescapable chemical facts about wear resistance and impact resistance differences between the two steels, or I could pull up the catra results, or what have you, but, if you can't tell the difference, all you're asking is why people nitpick over blade steels.

If that's your question, it's because we get highly specialized tastes. VG10 has about 25% higher wear resistance, IIRC, but AUS8 is much more resistant to impact. People bash cold steel because their videos are silly and they cater heavily to mall ninjas. Not to say I don't enjoy some of their products - I have a tuff lite, have had a large voyager and counter point II, and will most definitely own a Warcraft tanto. By and large, though, they use what many consider trash steels - AUS8 and 4116. Both are VERY soft compared to VG10, S30V, etc, and dull noticeably quicker.

Well, noticeably to some. I think a blade is dull if it no longer shaves. Thus, I've taken a general dislike to AUS8.
 
so why do I care? and Comeuppance this is not directed at you just ansewring the question. I care because I like truth and don't like when people don't recomend a knife to someone or say don't get that knife it has crappy steel when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
 
bertosknives said:
so why do I care? and Comeuppance this is not directed at you just ansewring the question. I care because I like truth and don't like when people don't recomend a knife to someone or say don't get that knife it has crappy steel when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
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Why assume they don't know what they're talking about? You not bring able to tell a functional difference between VG10 and AUS8 does not disprove elemental composition facts.

Really, though, self-proclaimed "experts" are unavoidable on the Internet - use whatever you like, do independent research and take what others say with a grain of salt.
Every steel has a purpose, but no steel is all-purpose.
 
welcome to the world of knife nuts, where the difference of 1mm between different blade stocks is enough for us to declare one as trash and the other as perfect.

where a few people note a steel for its work hardening properties, and suddenly hundreds of people will tell you that after a few sharpmaker sessions their knife now holds an edge similar to zdp189.

and yes, people who have never handled a certain steel will decry it as rubbish. I have never owned an aus8 blade, so I can not say with any certainty, but I doubt I would notice much difference between the two.
 
well thats were actual testing like ankerson has done and reading a pice of paper and assuming one steel will out cut another. and toughness makes a difference on how much you can cut.
 
goodeyesniper said:
welcome to the world of knife nuts, where the difference of 1mm between different blade stocks is enough for us to declare one as trash and the other as perfect.

where a few people note a steel for its work hardening properties, and suddenly hundreds of people will tell you that after a few sharpmaker sessions their knife now holds an edge similar to zdp189.

and yes, people who have never handled a certain steel will decry it as rubbish. I have never owned an aus8 blade, so I can not say with any certainty, but I doubt I would notice much difference between the two.
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lol so true we are just nuts just ask my wife.
 
I actually own Cold Steel AUS8 and Spyderco VG10. VG10 seems to take a keener edge and hold it longer, but also is more brittle. I can and have smacked my old counterpoint into a ladder by accident and it'll fold the edge at worst. VG10 chipped out in that same scenario. Also, I learned to be more mindful of what's behind me when I deploy a waved knife.
 
honestly I doubt many of those who get hung up on steel types can really tell a difference in real world use. Much of what you read from many people is them simply repeating what they hear. That is evidenced by their "users" looking like they are NIB. This isnt to say that there isnt many people out there who genuinely know what they are talking about. Dont get me wrong, I like a good steel if for anything for the pride of ownership of premium steel. But I would be flat out lying if I said that I could tell a difference between 80% of those knives. Im sure there are plenty out there just like me who cant either. What I CANT figure out is if they just try to pretend they have real knowledge and fully know they are full of it or if they really believe their own bull.

As far as cold steel goes, I dont see many knocking them for the steel they use. As many other well respected companies use that steel. I think they get called into question more for their marketing tactics as well as their ethics. I personally have never seen a cold steel product I would actually buy. And many more that not only would I not buy, but actually instill an irresistible laughter when I look at them.
 
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If I'm honest I can't really tell the difference between both. I touch up my knives more than once each day though, so they're almost always sharp. :p
 
I look for differences on the opposite side, during sharpening. When using the blades, I can't find much of a practical difference. But sharpening is another story. I even prefer 8Cr13MoV to AUS 8, because it sharpens better for me. With 8Cr13MoV I like Kershaw better than Spyderco, and Spyderco better than SOG. I really don't like the way AUS 8 sharpens, but I don't care much either way about how it cuts.
 
Alberta Ed said:
I doubt I could tell the difference. Both are excellent steels IMHO.
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The only way to tell difference in edge retention is to cut enough material until the knife is dull. So what is dull? Dull is probably different things depending oh the material you are cutting. For example: A barber's razor is considered dull when it starts grabbing. The sharpness of that razor at that stage would still be considered sharp if it were on a pocket knife cutting open envelopes.

Some people touch up their knives daily even when they haven't used them or just used them on a couple envelopes. Some people cut a couple dozen cardboard boxes and as long as their knives can still saw through the cardboard, they still consider them useable.

I could probably tell which steel is more wear resistant or harder during sharpening but I can never identify which steel it is if the knives don't have tang stamps. Sometimes I barely use my knives and at other times, I have to cut enough material to dull my knife. When I have to cut a lot, I sure appreciate the steels that hold that working edge longer.
 
PURPLEDC said:
honestly I doubt many of those who get hung up on steel types can really tell a difference in real world use. Much of what you read from many people is them simply repeating what they hear. That is evidenced by their "users" looking like they are NIB. This isnt to say that there isnt many people out there who genuinely know what they are talking about. Dont get me wrong, I like a good steel if for anything for the pride of ownership of premium steel. But I would be flat out lying if I said that I could tell a difference between 80% of those knives. Im sure there are plenty out there just like me who cant either. What I CANT figure out is if they just try to pretend they have real knowledge and fully know they are full of it or if they really believe their own bull.
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That may apply to many people, but, to toss my hat into the ring, I actually use my knives.

I've chipped out 8Cr13MoV, S30V, and VG10, rolled over AUS8, been amazed by 204P taking a edge-first whack into a steel pipe with no damage, been impressed by M4 holding an edge so long that I've only stropped 'em once after owning the knife for two months, had a similar experience with Elmax, and I have grown to love the keen edge that Sandvik takes.

All of those steels have their uses, all of them have their optimal applications - and, as such, none of them are functionally better than the other unless you're talking about specific cases.

There is a huge difference between them, though. Give me a 8Cr13MoV blade and a M4 blade, and you'll have a dull blade and a sharp blade by the end of my work day. Give me a VG-10 blade and an Elmax blade and set me on cutting zipties, and you'll have a chipped out blade and an unscathed blade by the time I'm done. I get caught up in blade steels because I hate corrosion, have a love/hate relationship with sharpening, and like to know that I'm not going to damage a blade by using it for what I think are normal cutting tasks.

I carry a Tuff-Lite at work because it sharpens stupid easily and I only really use it for tape and cardboard. It doesn't need to be razor sharp at the end of the day, and it sharpens so easily I can toss anything at it.
In addition to that, I carry my Hogue EX-01 for tasks that require a beefier or larger blade. Zip ties, several cords of rope, whatever.
Lastly, I have my Tenacious, which I keep at a scalpel-level of sharpness for very fine cutting tasks - anywhere from trimming fine materials to minor surgery (I work at a pet/agriculture store and have had to do some operations)

All three of those steels are perfectly good for what I use them for. None of them would be well-suited to any of the other roles.
 
I use my knives enough to be able tell the difference between steels that I use. Whether it is during sharpening, or use, I can see differences. I work a trailer factory job. I use my Southard instead of a Stanley knife. It gets used on a variety of tasks. If it takes damage I sharpen it out.

You may not be able to tell a difference betweem VG-10 and AUS-8a. But compare them to S30V and I would be surprised if you couldn't see differences.
 
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Reality is that the two steels are so close in performance most people couldn't really tell the difference in them, that's assuming proper HT and like knives.

VG-10, N690 and AUS-8 are all basically in the same class, and all are good user steels.

The alloy contents are very close of carbide former's with a slight edge going to VG-10 and N690 (Molybdenum, about .60% difference or so), but in reality it's not enough to see much of a real difference in performance.

Things like edge and blade geometry, edge finish etc will effect performance much more percentage wise.
 
I'm glad to hear Colonel Ankerson and others say that there's not much difference in these steels, because I sure can't tell much difference. But I'm not a hard user either, and defer on this matter to you guys who are cutting cardboard, drywall, zip ties and mulch bags all day. I'm sure the differences, if any, in blade steel tend to show up under that kind of usage. But as a light user EDC kind of knife guy, I'm perfectly happy with 8CRMoV or just about any other steel for that matter.
 
powernoodle said:
I'm glad to hear Colonel Ankerson and others say that there's not much difference in these steels, because I sure can't tell much difference. But I'm not a hard user either, and defer on this matter to you guys who are cutting cardboard, drywall, zip ties and mulch bags all day. I'm sure the differences, if any, in blade steel tend to show up under that kind of usage. But as a light user EDC kind of knife guy, I'm perfectly happy with 8CRMoV or just about any other steel for that matter.
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They are so close it could go either way depending on the variables, N690 is the real beast as in very aggressive of the 3 and the most used of them (very popular and widely used in Europe).

But for VG-10 and AUS-8?

Toss a coin really, both are affordable steels used in affordable production knives that most people could afford. :)
 
Comeuppance said:
That may apply to many people, but, to toss my hat into the ring, I actually use my knives.

I've chipped out 8Cr13MoV, S30V, and VG10, rolled over AUS8, been amazed by 204P taking a edge-first whack into a steel pipe with no damage, been impressed by M4 holding an edge so long that I've only stropped 'em once after owning the knife for two months, had a similar experience with Elmax, and I have grown to love the keen edge that Sandvik takes.

All of those steels have their uses, all of them have their optimal applications - and, as such, none of them are functionally better than the other unless you're talking about specific cases.

There is a huge difference between them, though. Give me a 8Cr13MoV blade and a M4 blade, and you'll have a dull blade and a sharp blade by the end of my work day. Give me a VG-10 blade and an Elmax blade and set me on cutting zipties, and you'll have a chipped out blade and an unscathed blade by the time I'm done. I get caught up in blade steels because I hate corrosion, have a love/hate relationship with sharpening, and like to know that I'm not going to damage a blade by using it for what I think are normal cutting tasks.

I carry a Tuff-Lite at work because it sharpens stupid easily and I only really use it for tape and cardboard. It doesn't need to be razor sharp at the end of the day, and it sharpens so easily I can toss anything at it.
In addition to that, I carry my Hogue EX-01 for tasks that require a beefier or larger blade. Zip ties, several cords of rope, whatever.
Lastly, I have my Tenacious, which I keep at a scalpel-level of sharpness for very fine cutting tasks - anywhere from trimming fine materials to minor surgery (I work at a pet/agriculture store and have had to do some operations)

All three of those steels are perfectly good for what I use them for. None of them would be well-suited to any of the other roles.
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I can totally appreciate your opinion because its one that comes from experience. I think what I was pointing out was that while people like you do in fact exist there are still two other groups that are a little harder to identify. Those that will simply repeat what you have wrote without ever experiencing the differences for themselves and the people who think they can tell a difference but would lose all knowledge of it blindfolded. I have much respect for the knife owner who states they use there knives and when you see their edc it has the battle scars to back it up. But I cant tell you how many times I read that statement and you see the pictures of the knives they "use" and it merely looks like the only thing they have cut is either their finger or a piece of paper to test the the edge. Thats NOT to say I use my knives hard. I dont. I carry them and use them when I need them but I only use a few select folders. The rest stay minty fresh because I cant afford to buy doubles. I have a few that I like enough that I bought duplicates and Therefore one of them becomes a user. But I dont go around telling people I cut down a tree with my knife and then show a picture of it and it looks like it was just removed from the box to photograph.

Ankerson said:
, that's assuming proper HT and like knives.

.
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Agree with this without question. So many get hung up on the steel. But I truly believe proper heat treat and tempering are much more important. I just wish that information was more readily available. Sure with some digging you can find out how KAI is treating their elmax vs spyderco. But many makers just give the generic Rc. scale provided by the steel manufacturer and rarely tell you exactly what they are running it at.
 
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