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New "opinion" vid on bearing flippers: "Smooth, Smoother, Smoothest" -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r-uvvcP1Bg
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PURPLEDC wrote: "Honestly i think mrbs is a little more marketing than it is science. That isnt to say it doesnt have its benefits as it does but i dont think smoothness has anything to do with it despite post after post with people claiming it does in fact matter."
PURPLEDC, I tend to agree with just about all your theories. I'd say that 3/4 of the Thorburns I own are SRBS and the last 1/4 are MRBS...and they are all equally incredibly smooth. If I were blindfolded I don't think I could tell you which was which based on how smoothly they opened or closed under their own weight. I think a lot of it is psychological. This is the same reason that I am very skeptical of the much higher priced (and I love their products, don't get me wrong) "Custom" Shirogorovs. Are those much higher prices really justified. Aside from the dimensions & weight being a little different (usually thicker handles than the mid techs) I believe the justifications for the substantially higher prices for the "customs" are primarily in the mind of the purchaser, placed there by clever marketing by the manufacturer AND added hype from the knife collecting community. When they show the MRBS "disk" with more tiny ball bearings inset into it, and the price of the knife is three or four times higher, I tend to laugh...in a very respectful way of course. I know we are paying for more human "hands-on time" on the knife, but the final product...3 times the price? Are you getting 3x the knife? I remain skeptical...espcially when you can get a (full custom made) THOURBURN (starting to sound like a broken record here, I know) at or LESS than the price of most mid tech, SRBS Shiros. Seems like someone has either overpriced...or UNDER-priced their product line. Bottom line, I love both makers. They both put out phenomenal product and THAT is really the bottom line IMHO.
I fully agree with your thoughts.
Andre Thorburn does amazing work and the collaboration between him and Andre van Heerden produces some stunning pieces.
This is the A3 taken apart:
Andre T experimented with caged bearings back in 2011 but has since gone away from it. Trust me when I say his caged system was already VERY smooth and the knife pictured here is one I have handled on numerous occasions as I know the person who won it.
In this video you can see one of Andre's single row IKBS folders at 2:57. Pretty much just as smooth as multirow. All and all, the attention to detail Andre puts into his knives is really what puts his work apart from others. Andre Thorburn and Andre van Heerden are also the IKBS approvers in South Africa.
[video=youtube;enLR03gbQWc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enLR03gbQWc[/video]
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**marthinus**, I loved seeing all your YT videos shot at Andre's workshop in South Africa! What a glimpse into the working laboratory (if you will) of a true master. I have one of two made, a model 53 XL Tanto MRBS and WOW, it is incredible. Was made for NYCKS 2014. I am so fortunate to have ended up with it. The Tanto ground, hand rubbed satin blade, MRBS and the entire knife, from its anodized and engraved bolsters to its LSCF scales to filed spine work, it's beautifully anodized hi-polished ti liners, perfect detent & custom pivot...all is perfection and works strongly, smoothly and flawlessly together...at 10.5 inches total length! It's a stunner. Great to talk with you.
Honestly i think mrbs is a little more marketing than it is science. That isnt to say it doesnt have its benefits as it does but i dont think smoothness has anything to do with it despite post after post with people claiming it does in fact matter. The reason i say that is because when you increase the number of bearings you increase the amount of contact you have. More points of contact over a wider surface area usually equates to more friction. But in the case of bearing flipper with a multirow system you have about the same amount of bearings you would have in a knife with none caged ikbs. Only know instead of one row it is two. Some might say you have the same amount of bearing as well as the same surface area contact therefore the same amount of friction. Others would argue that since those two rows of bearings in a cage and separated now actually create more friction due to the doubling of rows and thus twice as much stuff that needs to get moving.
I think the real advantage to a mrbs system is reducing wear. You get a balance between the increased wear properties associated with more contact of a washer but the reduced friction of a bearing. And since the pressure put on the bearings is spread over a wider area you may have less risk of wearing the frame or liners. Still you have to ask which is better for wear? Two rows with extra space between the bearings or one row with no cage but each bearing right next to each other sharing the load? I really dont know.
What i do know though is that mrbs or srbs it really doesnt mattwr unless you have a properly tuned lockbar and detent. I have seen knives that would feel like lightning dipped in astroglide except for the fact they had a lockbar exuding so much force that it overshadowed any reduction in friction gained by the bearings and covered it up with excessive friction with the detent. Really at this point i can take or leave a multirow system. I think the most important factors in making a smooth flipper are detent, lockbar, blade finish and flipper style/placement and in that order. And then way at the bottom of the list the actual bearing material, lube and amont of rows last.