Stabilizing Wood: Physics, Chemistry, Materials, Techniques, and Performance: "Just the facts Man"

The whole question is wrapped up in one part of a response:
… Equipment, materials and expertise ...

There may be a home stabilizer who spends years developing the skills needed. He may spend $10,000 plus on building the right equipment and purchasing high quality moisture testing tools. He may buy a good grade of resin. He may study polymerization until he understands how it can enhance the stability of wood and lock itself in the wood grain.

However, that guy is not the 99.9% of home stabilizers. To be fair, the guys using Minwax and acetone get lumped in with the guys who use cactus juice and the ones who buy a high grade resin. Problem is, you don't often know what the home stabilizing guy selling wood has for equipment., experience, or materials.

The professional places like K&G and WSSI use skills learned by processing tons of wood, tweaking their processes, and building top quality equipment they know how to use. They use resins we can't even buy in some cases, and use it up fast enough to keep it's properties good ( shelf life is very short on some resins and they have to be kept very cold).

I know two big time wood sellers who spent serious money on building a stabilizing shop and abandoned doing it because it is far more complex than it seemed.

I have been around this hobby for a long time and have never seen or tested a block of wood from a home stabilizer that was the same as one from WSSI or K&G. Some were pretty good, and made a nice knife handle … but were not as good as the professional wood. Good enough - YES … as good - NO.
 
Here are couple other variables to consider:
• The amount of solids in the stabiliant
• The hardness of the cured stabiliant

Some people used to suggest Minwax Wood Hardener for stabilizing. As an experiment I poured a pint into a shallow pan and left it to cure. After several months, there was a small mount of slow moving solids in the bottom of the pan. The Minwax had very little solids and was mostly made up of volatile liquid that evaporated. I estimated the solids were less than 25% of the total volume. I don't know if the solids ever hardened. We moved nine months after I started the experiment and I threw the pan in the trash.

Some of the professional stabilizing companies we used had proprietary blends of resin and hardeners. Some companies blocks are hard to the point of being brittle and would chip when dropped on a hard floor. Other companies blocks would not chip when dropped.

Chuck
 
My only issue is people who say that there is no effective difference between woods stabilized professionally and at home,
Please do not lump me in the group that says home is ALWAYS equal to K&G/WSSI.
as my wide experience in the subject tells me that home stabilized pieces are in average lighter, and so I disagree with that specific statement.
The term "in average lighter" I think I can agree with that completely, especially on denser woods. While on other woods (spalted maple for one example) the home stabilized block could (if properly done) be the same density as K&G/WSSI stabilized block. When I say "same density" I do not mean measured by laboratory standards, but checking amount of float in water.
 
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The whole question is wrapped up in one part of a response:
… Equipment, materials and expertise ...
After yesterday, I thought I wanted this thread to die - still not sure if I do not want that. However, people appear to still be posting and reading - so I will go ahead and at least start on what I intended (things have gone a little astray :) ).

My professional (and life) experience is that, with a very broad stroke, people often fall in to one of two "camps" 1) "I just want to know how to do it" (the "Hows"), and 2) "I want to know Why something works the way it does" (the "Whys"). Clearly, I fall into the "Whys" camp. I have also repeatedly learned (sometimes through painful experience) that the "Hows" find it very painful to listen to the "Whys". ("just get to the point ... tell me what to do"). That is ... until the "Hows" get stuck and the thing they are doing stops working - at which point understanding "Why" leads to the way forward.

So please, as I go through this, bear a couple things in mind: 1) a lot of the conclusions will have been intuited from experience - but for everyone saying "I already knew that" ... there are others saying "oh thats cool - that is Why that works the way it does (so please just be patient), 2) getting this out will hopefully get everyone on an even grounding - and help reduce the "impassioned discussion" later on, 3) it is just possible that hearing this background will help the "hows" make decisions in the future, 4) I doubt any minds will be changed (and I will not try to do so) - but for now and in the future hopefully this will help others make up their minds.

A couple other specific points: I think Stacy (quoted above) is exactly on the point - and it is these points that I am hoping to lay down a common reference for folks. Also, I emphatically agree with Ben (Greenberg Woods) that a home process simply can not hope to perform to the same level as a process like that used at K&G (and I will make clear exactly why that is - but we still have the question of when a home process might be "good enough"). I also agree with Ken H that in the end the cost difference between a home process and K&G is pretty small - so if you are only interested in cost, definitely go with K&G or similar (but as Randydb said, sometimes and for some of us it is just about the experience of "doing it" (process).

A final thing (I have said this before) to me at least this is about individuals making up their own minds whether to try their own stabilization and what to expect of it - not about whether to buy "stabilized wood" on Etsy or Ebay or the like. I can tell you enough about it to understand what (and exactly in detail why) it can get screwed up - and how what has been done to the wood can be mis-communicated (especially by someone who does not really understand the process). As a result, I personally would not buy stabilized wood from one of those sources, and if you do, as someone else has said, you are taking a huge chance. I would either do it myself (understanding the limits), or I would go right to K&G.

Bear with me - this will take pictures and figures, and I will try to take it in small digestible bites - so it will take a while to unfold (but I still think it is a cool process - and believe it or not you are following right in the footsteps of the petroleum and gas "fracking" industries!). If it just gets to be too much, I can/will stop. Hopefully, as I have said, on balance it will help.
 
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Ok - regarding backgrounds, I tried to be circumspect ... but you mentioned it, so here goes. I hold a B.S. in Chemistry, an M.S in Chemical Engineering, and a PhD in Chemical Engineering/Materials Science. A lot of my work over the years (30 years industrial experience) has involved polymeric systems very similar to this Acrylic system (and at times explicitly the acrylic systems), and also, both in my PhD work and industrial experience, extensive work in porous materials (un-stabilized wood is a porous material). I have also done a lot of work in the area of the physical/mechanical properties of composite materials (of which stabilized wood is one) this stabilization process make sense to me ... but I can also see clearly how it can be misunderstood and how the stabilization process can go awry. I am interested in helping those that want to do it at home ... do it better (I also want to try it myself!). That is all that this is about.
Thank you for sharing your background. I can see you've got LOTS of knowledge in this area and we do appreciate you sharing.
But again, if I am alone (or mostly alone) in being nerdily interested in this process, I will desist and request the moderators delete this thread.
You are NOT alone, so PLEASE do keep this thread open. I retract my earlier statement of "beat this dead horse", you and Ben both have brought lots of good new info for me.
 
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Cushing, you posted while I was typing my last response. I agree with EVERYTHING you posted in your last post.
people often fall in to one of two "camps" 1) "I just want to know how to do it" (the "Hows"), and 2) "I want to know Why something works the way it does" (the "Whys").
I find your comment of the two camps interesting. I fall somewhere between the two camps. While sometimes I just want to know the "how", once I learn the "how" I find myself searching more to understand more of the "why". Larrin's threads on metallurgy is a good example - on HT'ing, just give me the recipe and let me work. BUT - I find myself reading every article he posts and saving them to refer back to later.

My respects to you and Ben (Greenberg woods) both for sharing knowledge and science of stabilizing woods.

Ken H>
 
thank you Ken. I will do my best to make this worth your, and others' time. It is a rainy, stormy day here today (Minneapolis, MN), my wife has one car, my son the other, and my grinder has not yet arrived - so I have time to work on this (well, I could be finishing the bench for the grinder, but what the heck.... :) )

I am absolutely sure that Ben will also have a lot of detail/data to add to this as it develops - I have a lot of the theory but not all the data - I am sure that Ben has a lot of the data! - good combination!
 
I just remembered, another difference between my home stabilizing and K&G's was that on wood like sycamore my stabilizing picked up some buffing compound in the finished wood and K&G's didn't.
 
I just remembered, another difference between my home stabilizing and K&G's was that on wood like sycamore my stabilizing picked up some buffing compound in the finished wood and K&G's didn't.
Hmm. maybe not as hard after cure as K&G? good piece of information - thanks
 
ok - lets try starting with this. Wood is porous - we all know that. But to understand stabilization we need to characterize that in some manner. Most publications appear to want to divide "pore sizes" up in to 4-5 divisions. The Wood Database (hardwoods) uses four divisions:

upload_2019-7-20_14-38-25.png
where "micrometers" is the diameter of the pore in micrometers (microns). What this means is actually somewhat misleading - but I will clarify that in a bit.

Most academic / professional journal articles appear to want to describe the pores with a different range of sizes. for example, an article by Plotze from 2011 ("Porosity and pore size distribution of different wood types as determined by mercury intrusion porosimetry" in the European Journal of Wood and Wood Products. (volume 69 to be more exact) tops out at a smaller diameter and goes much smaller. Several other articles I have seen also report data in this smaller range, so for now lets go with Plotze's definitions:
upload_2019-7-20_14-51-50.png
This is NOT meant to be absolute, but rather somewhat representative of the sizes and the range of sizes (of course, this will differ in detail from species to species and even tree to tree. Overall, Plotze's article gives some insightful data from a range of species, varying from Beech to Maple to Ebony).

For current purposes, lets use an "example" pore system that includes these four basic sizes of pores and their terminology (this is VERY simplified, as real pore systems are branched and tortuous - but this should be enough to make clear the basic important points:
upload_2019-7-20_14-49-31.png
so - to generalize even more, we have some pores that are about 10 microns, some that are about 1 micron, some that are about 0.1 micron, and some that are 0.01 micron in diameter. Now, and this is a very important point, you will note that I have indicated the "pores" to be the "pinch points" between larger areas (and not the "large" areas between "pinch points"). This is intentional because, as I will talk about later, it is these "pinch points" that control the ability of anything liquid (water, mercury (used in mercury porosimetry), acrylic resin, etc) to pass or "flow" into "deeper" regions of the pore system. The diameter of these "pinch points" also have a direct (i.e. quantitative and mathematical) relationship between the pressure applied to the wood and the ability of that pressure to "push" the resin past that pinch point. But again, I will describe that later.

What is "stabilization"? All of the professional and academic journal literature defines "stabilization" as filling this pore space with some sort of solid substance - so the pores end up looking like this:
upload_2019-7-20_15-1-28.png
Where the red hashes indicate, in our case, the presence of acrylic resin of some sort in that location of the pore (sorry this is so messy - my powerpoint is not behaving the way it should for some reason). By filling the pore space with a rigid substance the overall block of wood is reinforced by a dense mesh/network that "protects" the wood throughout. That, and I am sure others here on the forum, is an absolute. Treatments that only cover the surface - well, they only stay on the surface. They do not "reinforce" the bulk of the wood block. I will talk later quantitatively about the "whys" of what aspects of a process will allow that deep penetration of the porespace.

I do not mean the above diagram of a "filled" pore to specify that the entire porespace needs to be filled (you can never get there anyway, even with commercial processes). You just need enough of the porespace filled and "reinforced" to create that hard "protective / reinforcing network". You also need to understand that even though the simple "pore example" shown above implies that "big" pores are near the surface, and "small" pores are deeper down, that is not the case. Both big and small pores exist near the surface just as equally as they do down in the middle of the block. So, even if you just fill the "biggest" pores, you have still created a network of hard resin that permeates the block (again, more later on how you actually do that). That is the source of my question of "how good is good enough"? If (and this is a big if) all you are after is a structural reinforcement sufficient to withstand the rigors a kitchen counter - maybe you do not have to fill the entire porespace?

Keeping in mind that "bigger pores are easier to get filled than small pores" - below is some select data on pore size distribution from Plotze's paper:
upload_2019-7-20_15-30-28.png

From this you can see that, for Maple for example, the biggest pores make up most of the porespace. By filling them you create a reinforcing resin network that, in addition to creating a web of hard resin throughout the block, also covers most of the porespace available. Somewhere in the middle is Oak, where the two biggest pore space categories make up something like 30% of the porespace. Again, seeing that if you fill those two categories, you will create a web that spans the physical dimensions of the block - is this enough to protect the handle from the rigors of use? In the kitchen, maybe. As a field knife - probably not. But it definitely will not be as "heavy" as if all (or most) of the pore categories were filled. gotta decide which of those "needs" is more important to you (and your customers). WAY on the other end of things is Ebony, were something like 75% of the porespace is made up of the absolute smallest (and hardest to fill) pores. Again, because there is a direct relationship between the higher pressure applied and the ability to "push" resin through those smallest pore "pinch points", this is the reason Ebony is so hard to stabilize. (oh, one other important point: because mercury porosimetry measures the ability of pressure to push liquid past and through a "pinch point" - even if there is a much larger space "behind" that pinch point, that larger space is not accessible to the fluid, and so it "counts" as if it were all of that smallest pore size. The exact same thing is true when pushing resin into the pores - we are really dealing with "accessibility" of the pores, not directly their actual size. A great example of this is Cork - highly porous with really quite big pores (physically speaking), BUT the pores are "closed", with no connection to the outside world - the pores are not "accessible", and so would react under these processes as if they were extremely small....)

Very quickly, I am going to talk about Acrylic resins. Basically they consist of small molecules that (using heat and an "activator") start to chemically react with each other and form long chains of molecules. These chains of molecules are highly intertwined (as I said before, think highly, highly intertangled strands of thread). When the molecules stop "growing and lengthening", the result is a pretty hard, rigid solid. The stuff goes in as a liquid, and ends up a solid "molded" to the porespace of the wood The details (and differences) of the individual small molecules that are used to start with define the differences in the final "solid" result (more dense, less dense, harder, softer, etc). Some are mixtures of different types of small molecules. I would not sweat the differences between them too much (they are all of the same basic chemical family) - for marketing purposes some companies may scream "trade secret", or "proprietary mixture" ... but that is really mostly marketing. Again, I would not sweat the differences (except as i will talk about below regarding viscosity and surface tension). (one weird thing about Acrylic resins in general though is this: the vast majority of plastics have a specific gravity (density) less than 1.0 (that is, lighter than water). Acrylics as a family have a specific gravity of about 1.2 - which is unusual. Think about it: your plastic food storage containers float in water. Your plastic forks and spoons float in water. But your stabillized wood (filled with a plastic) sinks (mostly). Kinda weird :)

So .. enough for today I think. But the next obvious question(s) to ask is: what gets in the way of filling that porespace with resin? The answers, as far as I know (some of which many of you have spoken about) are: 1) water, 2) air, 3) particulate, 4) viscosity of the resin, 5) surface tension of the resin, and 6) time. The details about water and surface tension are really rather cool - but then again, I know I am a nerd :).

I will talk quantitatively about each of these in next postings.
 

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Well, the dymond wood on your shun is a phenol formaldehyde if I'm not mistaken, not an acrylic product.
Interesting. They just borrowed the process from the plywood industry? Seems odd, as those resins are yellowish .. but then again dymondwood used dyes/inks to color their wood, right? Maybe that hides the yellow...

Elsewhere you point out that stabilization does not waterproof the wood. I am assuming that this shrinkage i am seeing on the dymondwood on my Shun is due to moisture loss (MN is very dry in the winter). Do you think the acrylic resins used in stabilization would resist the resulting shrinkage/expansion better than the PF resins? My guess is it would depend on their relative Young’s Moduli? I have not looked them up to compare...
 
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Cushing, your post above brought up some interesting points. The "pinch points" for sure are the limiting points where the resin can flow into the open spaces. Is there a list somewhere showing what size pores each type of wood has? Maple, Oak, Black Walnut, etc? I realize the size of the pores would vary in the same wood, but size in general? Helps explain why Maple stabilizes so well where Black Walnut doesn't do so well for home stabilizing.

Keep up the good work - we're reading and absorbing.
 
Is there a list somewhere showing what size pores each type of wood has?
The best data you will find will be in the academic and industry-related (peer reviewed) journals. There is a lot of data from various people - and you will likely find that there are differences between author's results (wood sources differ, experimental technique differs, etc) ... so lacking an ability to collect a lot of papers and do some statistical analysis (averages, standard deviations, etc) - I would go to one or two papers (that have the species you are interested in ) and use those data as semi-quantitative (i.e. "ballpark" info on the pore sizes) - should be more than good enough for our purposes though.

A quirk of Copyright law has it that you can freely use/photocopy a journal article IF you are using it for academic or non-commercial purposes - BUT you can not distribute it to others :(. Soooooo, I can not upload copies of papers to the forum, but I CAN can give you references to the papers I have actually obtained copies of (one of the benefits of being close to the U of Minn campus :) ), and can dig back through my browser bookmarks for the others I have read the abstracts of (but not read in detail). There are a LOT of them. I can, however, use some of the data and generate figures and plots, like I did in the previous posting. Unfortunately, many of these papers, if you do not have a library you can walk into and photocopy the hard-copy of, are not "free" online. You have to pay to get a copy of them (even for personal purposes). Fees usually run something like $50/article :(

Immediate references I can give you for some pore size distributions are:
Plotze, M., and Niemz, P. Porosity and pore size distribution of different wood types as determined by mercury intrusion porosimetry. European Journal of Wood and Wood Products, Vol 69, pp. 649-657. 2011. (this is the one I cited above - has data for 24 species)

Peng, L., Wang, D., Fu, F., and Song, B. Analysis of wood pore characteristics with mercury intrusion porosimetry and x-ray micro-computed tomography. Wood Research, Vol 60, pp. 857-864. 2015. (I think this one is available without paying if you look around for the right source - this one is also interesting in that it has some data based on differing densities of wood and how that relates to pore size distribution)

One I have yet to get a copy of, but will be REALLY interesting later on is:
Ding, W, et al. Relationship between wood porosity, wood density and methyl methacrylate impregnation rate. Wood Material Science & Engineering, Vol 3. 2008. (sorry, the abstract I have for this one does not give the actual page numbers - but you can find it by looking through the journal archives for the authors/article title)
 
The "pinch points" for sure are the limiting points where the resin can flow into the open spaces
Absolutely! But not for the reason that most people would think. It comes down to surface tension issues (and is the very reason why the petroleum folks inject water into oil and natural gas wells under high pressure). Needs pictures (and maybe one equation) to really describe - will get to it in a little while. sorry - too much to get out in one short posting :(
 
I would like to re-iterate that I have no argument that the K&G process results in better penetration than anything we can do at home (and I can/will tell you just why that is). What remains unclear to me is: under what use-conditions does that penetration difference result in a performance difference? (and if so, how great is that performance difference).

I think actually trying to define what measurable parameters define "performance" is one of the difficulties. Also what are the threshold levels of these parameters that divide between not good, good enough, great, and the ultimate zenith of performance?

If you want to say the hardest, densest, and most stable wood is "the best" for performance then maybe skip stabilized wood altogether and use lignum vitae (Guaiacum officinale). Or just make an integral handle out of the blade steel?
 
I think actually trying to define what measurable parameters define "performance" is one of the difficulties.
Agreed. How about we run with that question? Forum members: what are YOU looking for in stabilized wood? Ben indicated he hears from his customers that the “feel” of heavy scales is important (am i correct there Ben?). Is anyone out there looking for anything else / different???
 
What I am looking for in a wooden handle material is something that is hard(dense), stable, and easy to hand finish.
 
Forum members: what are YOU looking for in stabilized wood?
I want something that's aesthetically close to unstabilised wood.

A lot of this discussion is treating access to professional stabilisation services as a given. I had a quick look, and can't find any around here. So if i want to play with stabilised woods i need to either import from the other side of the planet, trust someone's home shop, or do it myself.
 
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