Stainless knives through time

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ISKRA

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I was wondering, did American cutleries try stainless steel on knives earlier than, say, Sheffield or elsewhere in Europe? I know Americans tried it out pretty much as soon as it appeared yet it didn't do all that well with the customers and really cought on only decades later, after ww2. I get the impression that it then got more of a hold in Europe than in America. Where I'm from anything with "rostftei" stamped on it is synonymous with "German quality" and automatically well regarded, with carbon blades kind of going out of fashion almost completely with your average Joe. On the other hand it seems carbon steel has persisted in America more or at least longer. Do you think this is true or do you have different thoughts regarding this matter? Feel free to elaborate, although this shouldn't be based ony what you personally preffer more. ;)

Also, pictures of knives don't hurt noone, thus it'd be wonderful if you can post a pic of some earlier stainless knives, either from the time stainless was a sort of trial material or when they picked up more. :)

Cheers,
Žan
 
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Zan, funny you should post this now, I just picked up an early Schrade Cut Co in stainless, far as I know it is from the 1920's and is an example of some of the earliest use of stainless in American made folders, apparently from what I read it did not sell well, users did not want to give up their carbon steel.


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Augie said:
Zan, funny you should post this now, I just picked up an early Schrade Cut Co in stainless, far as I know it is from the 1920's and is an example of some of the earliest use of stainless in American made folders, apparently from what I read it did not sell well, users did not want to give up their carbon steel.


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Just saw this one over at the "Old Knives" thread, was kind of the inspiration. :D

Was this beacuse it didn't sharpen as good? Ober here folks will telk you if it stains it isn't worth much. o_O Although those same people don't sharpen their knives, except on a grinder perhaps ... :eek:
 
I believe that Queen was the first American cutler to use stainless steel in the early 1920s, maybe 1922.

My earliest stainless knife is this Ulster built Craftsman from the late 1950s.
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A lot of the problem with stainless steel here was simply that not all stainless steels are equal. When cutlery makers started trying stainless, they were trying everything without knowing what would work, so "stainless" became synonymous with "won't hold an edge". Queen happened to try 440C, and it worked so well that it became their trademark "Queen Steel". For a long time, they were pretty much the only cutlers in the US using stainless. I personally think that is one reason they don't seem to be as well known as Case or Camillius. Kind of a "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me." People tried an early stainless knife and were disappointed with the performance so they were not going to spend good money on a stainless Queen ( which would probably have changed their mind if they had).
 
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Curious if the adoption of stainless table ware, aka "silverware", (steak knives) figured into people's acceptance of stainless pocket knives.
 
Don't forget that there are magnetic and non-magnetic stainless steels.Way back when I first encountered stainless,if it was non-magnetic it ducked at holding and edge and rarely could be sharpened to as fine of an edge as carbon "knife steel"
 
ISKRA said:
I was wondering, did American cutleries try stainless steel on knives earlier than, say, Sheffield or elsewhere in Europe? I know Americans tried it out pretty much as soon as it appeared yet it didn't do all that well with the customers and really cought on only decades later, after ww2. I get the impression that it then got more of a hold in Europe than in America. Where I'm from anything with "rostftei" stamped on it is synonymous with "German quality" and automatically well regarded, with carbon blades kind of going out of fashion almost completely with your average Joe. On the other hand it seems carbon steel has persisted in America more or at least longer. Do you think this is true or do you have different thoughts regarding this matter? Feel free to elaborate, although this shouldn't be based ony what you personally preffer more. ;)

Also, pictures of knives don't hurt noone, thus it'd be wonderful if you can post a pic of some earlier stainless knives, either from the time stainless was a sort of trial material or when they picked up more. :)

Cheers,
Žan
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With all of the reading I have done regarding the knife industry in the early 1900s, I would be willing to bet stainless steel pocket knives did not catch on here in the U.S. because of simple stubbornness ;) As Jack said earlier, stainless caught on overseas from 1915 into the 1920s and became almost the preferred blade of choice once the alloys were formulated for proper blade edges and strength. However at that time here in the states, the larger knife manufacturers finally had a hold on the market over imported knives and they wanted to keep their "brand" which was American made carbon steel. They were banded against the imported knives and an idea like stainless pocket knives I'm sure made them cringe :confused: Not to mention I'm sure the thought of another learning curve didn't fit their labor heavy budget ;) It makes sense that Kastor / Camillus gave it a shot due to their strong German influence but for Queen to take it on was a pretty bold step.
 
Kevin, thanks for posting photos of your wonderful knives! Too bad for that Schrade's spring ... :(

Chin and Larrin, thanks a lot for the articles, very interesting! :thumbsup:
 
ISKRA
“On the other hand it seems carbon steel has persisted in America more or at least longer.”

Carbon has persisted in traditional knives here in the states but has all but died in modern knives. I think a lot of it has to do with the stubborn misguided belief amoung many here that if it isn't carbon it isn't traditional. Stainless has been around for a long time, so I don't understand that train of thought.

yablanowitz
"stainless" became synonymous with "won't hold an edge".

That is what I was taught in the late 60's, when I was looking to buy my first knife. Steels like True Sharp, 420hc and 440A had nothing going for them other than the fact they didn't rust or patina. Companies choose them because they were easy to stamp out. NOT because they were good steels. If you wanted a good steel in the 60's and 70's, 1095 was the super steel of choice. I don't remember seeing Queen's 440C and in the pre internet days and I would have fallen back on my experience with stainless and ignored it as an option.

It was another 30 years before I would look at stainless seriously as a knife steel. Today I doubt I'll ever buy another carbon steel traditional knife.
I would like to see more 154CM in traditional knives it is not a super steel. It holds a good edge and if you can sharpen 1095, you'll should have no trouble with 154CM.
 
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