Stainless Steel vs. Carbon and Tool Steel; What Makes the Difference?

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adc5

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Ok, so I'm already sold on the idea of good carbon and tool steel (I love well heat-treated 1095 and SR101 is to date my dream steel), but what really makes the difference that cause so many people to prefer them over stainless? If I spent the same amount of cash on a good stainless blade, would it compare?

I suppose what I'm asking is a few questions:
In general, is carbon or tool steel:

stronger?
tougher?
get better edge retention?

In short, what makes YOU appreciate tool steel (IF you like it at all)?
 
With stainless steels like 110V and M390 available it makes it hard for me to go the tool steel route.I really like M4 tool steel, but I can't seem to find many choices with an uncoated blade option that are produced domestically(my choice) and are production knives. I do like the Benchmade D2 and M4 steels and find them to be great performers especially the M4 at the hardness Benchmade is currently running.The tool steels seem to take at little better hair splitting edge in my opinion.Stronger?Tougher?Better edge retention?I don't know and I guess it would depend on what my intended use of the knife is...The M4 really seems to jump out as far as overall performance from my experiences if you choose the tool steel route.
 
For me its about feel.

I slice and cut food for a living, carbon just feels so much better.

I cannot explain it properly, it just glides while stainless has 'ridges' I can feel. (Even if stainless is polished)
 
adc5 said:
Ok, so I'm already sold on the idea of good carbon and tool steel (I love well heat-treated 1095 and SR101 is to date my dream steel), but what really makes the difference that cause so many people to prefer them over stainless? If I spent the same amount of cash on a good stainless blade, would it compare?

I suppose what I'm asking is a few questions:
In general, is carbon or tool steel:

stronger?
tougher?
get better edge retention?

In short, what makes YOU appreciate tool steel (IF you like it at all)?
Click to expand...

I live in Oregon and use my knives outdoors near the coast. Tool steels do not perform well in such conditions, even when coated, and develop pesky pitting or rusting. Overall, modern high-end stainless steels provide world-changing corrosion resistance, less toughness, comparable or better edge retention, and slightly less strength. It is -very- difficult to notice the difference in toughness and edge retention between CPM-M4, M390, and S90V. It is, however incredibly easy to notice the corrosion resistance between these steels.
 
I too live in Oregon where this time of year it rains almost non-stop and I have found that stainless is great but I still prefer using my carbon blades and with a small can of WD-40 I can keep the rust off consistently for long periods of time. Although if you are intending nice clean and shiny all the the time go with stainless.Keep in mind none of my knives are +150 (ESEE Junglas is the only exception but that things a tank) so I have no problem with little patches of surface rust because its so easy to clean off with some sort of oil and some steel wool.
 
A lot of carbon steel is easier for makers to work with, keeping the cost down. You see lots of nice knives in basic carbon steels on the exchange for cheap. Tool steels are just carbon steels developed for industrial tooling and are very tough and take a good edge. D2 is a great steel because it has good wear resistance and doesn't rust as easily as O1 or 1095, but it is a bit harder to sharpen. Tool steels are some of my favorite steels A2, D2, O1 and are carefully manufactured for specific purposes and sometimes make good knife steels. I like good stainless as well, but it is more expensive and a bit harder to sharpen in my experience. You get a trade off in wear resistance (edge holding). Modern super stainless is every bit as good or better than "tool"steel or basic carbon steel, but much more expensive. A lot of people are willing to deal with rust issues to get good performance of carbon steels, but as some of the Oregonians have stated, 1095 or O1 is a pain in the butt to take care of in coastal regions.

Here is a basic link explaining tool steels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_steel
 
My shop is a few blocks from the ocean and I make mostly culinary with a few camp and hunters.
I personally prefer stainless, Yes its harder to sharpen but the edge also lasts longer. My understanding is that the Chromium adds abrasive resistance along with the corrosion resistance.

That all said, What Stainless? What Semi-stainless and what carbon steels are we comparing?

Keep in mind that a carbon steel and a stainless steel can both have the same amount of carbon in them. What other elements are present? Another point is that hardness is achived in the heat treating process.
You can HT 1095 carbon & CPM-154 both to a RC hardness of say, 59.

So there are a few riddles in awnsering your questions.
 
SouthEast said:
by the way, is "tool steel" is a different clasiffication between carbon or stainless steel?
Click to expand...

Carbon steel is a simple alloy of carbon and iron. 1084, 1095, etc.

Low alloy steels have a small amount of alloying elements in them. High alloy steels have a high % of alloying elements.

Tool steels are used in industrial applications for tooling. High speed steels HSS and high wear resistant steels are often examples of tool steels.

Stainless means >=12% by weight chromium content in the the alloy.

Many people use the terms incorrectly or too generally.
 
I prefer carbon myself. Why?
1. Cheaper.
2. For what I do, performs better than the stainless I get at the same price range. (Sharpens easier, holds a sharper edge, doesn't have much tendency to chip, etc.)
3. Cheapity cheap.
 
I prefer a good stainless steel. S30V has been a favorite of mine for years. I haven't much experience with M390 , S90V or S110V. But they're on my list.

As far as "non-stainless" goes , I really like D2. And I agree with it being called a "semi" stainless steel. It's chromium content is just shy of it qualifying as a true stainless steel ( I believe it has 12% chromium and 13% chromium is required to be classified as true stainless). But it has enough chromium and thus enough corrosion resistance to compete with a lot of the popular stainless steels available. And it has superb wear resistance and keeps a devilishly sharp edge for a good long while.

I live on Cape Cod about 1/4 mile from the ocean and I have never had any rust problems with any of my Benchmade D2 blades whatsoever. A great blade steel indeed.
 
I have had cheap stainless and hi quality stainless, the same is true for carbon or tool steel over the years. I have never found one steel that actually performs any better than the other one. The cheap stuff didn't last as long but I still have a stainless knife expensive at the time, that is 25 or 30 years old and still works just as good as any of my newer knives. It's not the steel that matters it's the way the steel was heat treated/made.
 
muddog15 said:
I have had cheap stainless and hi quality stainless, the same is true for carbon or tool steel over the years. I have never found one steel that actually performs any better than the other one. The cheap stuff didn't last as long but I still have a stainless knife expensive at the time, that is 25 or 30 years old and still works just as good as any of my newer knives. It's not the steel that matters it's the way the steel was heat treated/made.
Click to expand...

No. The alloy matters too.
 
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