Steel: "4V", What is that?

V

VorpelSword

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I am seeing some knives advertised having blades from "4V" steel.
What is that?
Where does it fit into the spectrum of performance parameters?
How does it compare with recent high-alloy steels such as S35VN and Magnacut?
 
Vanadis 4E is basically Bohler Uddeholm's version of CPM-4V.

4V has 5% chrome so it can rust, but in my applications (including kitchen) not easily so. Just need to keep your knives clean for storage.

Here you can see where it sits in comparison to other tool steels that I like, with similar level of corrosion resistance.

i-sSfKcPt-XL.jpg


(I don't remember why I added 1V to the chart :) ).

Today, you see 4V mostly in competition knives, it's tough, so no chipping or breakage, and it can be run quite hard.

S35VN is stainless, but chips much easier (less toughness).

Magnacut it said to perform very similarly to 4V, and be completely stainless. But it's still new, so time will tell.

Roland.

PS: for better and more data, have a look at knifesteelnerds.com. My above chart predates many of the data there.
 
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Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

What I have done is rank the steels in Categories based on edge retention cutting 5/8" manila rope. We are looking for big differences here, not ranking the steels in order such as 1,2,3,4,5. The categories or groups mean that one can expect those steels in that category to have close to the...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
It's a good performing tool steel, I've got a couple Big Chris knives with 4V. It stains easily,
It's been around for a while, mainly seen in fixed blades. Spyderco has some folders in 4V.
 
To summarize:

Compared to 3V
Less tough (noticeable)
Higher edge retention (noticeable)
Less stainless (slightly noticeable)

Compared to S35VN
More tough (very noticeable)
On par edge retention (not noticeable)
Less stainless (very noticeable)

Compared to CPM154
More tough (noticeable)
Higher edge retention (very noticeable)
Less stainless (slightly noticeable)

From my usage experiences with wood, wet environment, digging roots, etc. I think the first noticeable thing is how easily it stains/rusts. Not K390/Maxamet level, but up there.

Hope this helps!
 
ferider said:
Vanadis 4E is basically Bohler Uddeholm's version of CPM-4V.

4V has 5% chrome so it can rust, but in my applications (including kitchen) not easily so. Just need to keep your knives clean for storage.

Here you can see where it sits in comparison to other tool steels that I like, with similar level of corrosion resistance.

i-sSfKcPt-XL.jpg


(I don't remember why I added 1V to the chart :) ).

Today, you see 4V mostly in competition knives, it's tough, so no chipping or breakage, and it can be run quite hard.

S35VN is stainless, but chips much easier (less toughness).

Magnacut it said to perform very similarly to 4V, and be completely stainless. But it's still new, so time will tell.

Roland.

PS: for better and more data, have a look at knifesteelnerds.com. My above chart predates many of the data there.
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This is a good chart, thanks.
 
Thanks everyone.

It is interesting to note that I am seeing Chris Reeve Knives in the 4V steel, specifically their Green Beret. I would think that low maintenance would trump a marginal performance boost when it comes to a serious combat oriented knife.
 
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VorpelSword said:
It is interesting to note that I am seeing Chris Reeve Knives in the 4V steel, specifically their Green Beret. I would think that low maintainance would trump a marginal performance parameter.
Click to expand...
Seems like they'll be moving their knives to Magnacut soon.
 
Kizer makes a bunch of 3v and 4v folders now, too. The Feist, Vanguard Begleiter, and mini Sheepdog are available in green aluminum and 4V from them directly, there's a Lundquist special Feist with the same drop point as the red Richlite 4V version but with black micarta, they've got the Mini Critical in 3V too. The Sheepdogs even come in 10V from BladeHQ!
 
VorpelSword said:
Thanks everyone.

It is interesting to note that I am seeing Chris Reeve Knives in the 4V steel, specifically their Green Beret. I would think that low maintenance would trump a marginal performance boost when it comes to a serious combat oriented knife.
Click to expand...
It is not that simple. Green Beret specifically in 4V is at 64 HRC vs normal s35VN at 55-57. 4V knife is also PVD coated. So toughness might be similar between the 2, but you get significantly more strength (resistance to deformation) and much better edge stability. You are also probably getting significantly better edge holding. Since the blade is coated the difference in corrosion resistance plays a role for the edge, but less so for the rest of the blade. If you cut very acidic stuff and neglect your knife it might make a difference, but in most cases it won't. The 4V knife would be able to support much lower angles which has many benefits in itself.
 
ace said:
It is not that simple. Green Beret specifically in 4V is at 64 HRC vs normal s35VN at 55-57. 4V knife is also PVD coated. So toughness might be similar between the 2, but you get significantly more strength (resistance to deformation) and much better edge stability. You are also probably getting significantly better edge holding. Since the blade is coated the difference in corrosion resistance plays a role for the edge, but less so for the rest of the blade. If you cut very acidic stuff and neglect your knife it might make a difference, but in most cases it won't. The 4V knife would be able to support much lower angles which has many benefits in itself.
Click to expand...
55-57 is crazy low for S35VN. That’s not taking advantage of its edge holding capabilities at all, it should be run closer to 60+ I would imagine
 
John_B said:
Way better than the 3V let me tell you!
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Well of course... 3V, 4V, whatever it takes. (Young people here won't get that reference.)
There are a LOT of different steels available today, 4V is one that hasn't been used in knives that much until somewhat recent years and it has a good mix of qualities. Depending on the qualities you want it might be one of the best available, although it is not at the top of the coolness ladder in terms of premium steels.
 
CRK seems to make pretty good knives. Design materials and workmanship all seem high. If they make a version of the GB knife in 4V, I guess. I know a retired Marine who took a CRK-GB to Iraq in 2004. He liked it and had no complaints with the S30VN blade back then. He felt it was a stouter, more durable knife than the Randall #16-1 he also had along on that deployment.

The depth of knowledge in many responses here shows my ignorance.
 
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