Steel (and source) for custom skinning ulu

O

onefish

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Jul 3, 2016
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Hi, I am hoping that the experienced knife makers here might be able to steer me in the right direction. Firstly let me start by saying that I am not a knife maker, heck I'm not even a knife enthusiast. For me knives have always just been a tool I use when needed to get a particular job done. Having said that, I do keep my limited selection of knives razor sharp and ready for duty. When I was in Alaska a few years ago I saw a kind of Bristol Bay style ulu made from an old crosscut saw (similar to this http://lh4.ggpht.com/-cr4DSVK-ugI/Ufq-j7gWUQI/AAAAAAAAD44/Dx3EYtaatIE/s1600/IMG_20130801_125419_013.jpg ) and I thought that with a little modification it would make a superb skinning tool for the water buffalo I hunt in northern Australia. I would extend the top a bit more, sharpen all the way around the top, put the steel all the way through the handle, and add a large gut hook at the bottom (at least 1" deep to get through buffalo hide)

I mentioned this to my brother, who is a knife enthusiast and amateur knife maker and he has been wanting to make me one since. He's been getting pretty serious about going through with it so I have now begun trying to find an appropriate piece of steel for the job. He's in the USA by the way so me being in Aus shouldn't limit availability. I have come to really appreciate thin blades as they are just so much easier to keep sharp and slice so much better than thicker ones. The blade on the ulu I saw in AK couldn't have been more than 1.5mm thick and felt about right. I also feel like, since we're going to all the trouble and expense, it would be nice if the blade was stainless. It is very humid here in the tropics and even my stainless knives rust in the sheath, in the cupboard. I will however just accept having a rusty ulu if I have to in order to get satisfactory edge performance.

So, the research I have been able to do so far has led me to believe that M390/CPM-20CV/CTS-204p would be a good stainless choice but might as well be called "unobtainium". I can't find anywhere that I can actually purchase a piece around 0.07" thick and 6" wide. AKS sells 440C, CPM154 and CPM S30V in appropriate thicknesses and widths for the ulu. They also offer a range of non-stainless carbon steels that might perform even better in this application (but will rust in the humidity here). CPM M4 kind of edged out in front of the pack in the non-stainless steels during my research and it is available from AKS in an appropriate size.

So the question is, given the application and size requirements, what is the most suitable steel for the job and where can I buy it?

PS. I know HT is critical to many of the high end steels so we'd probably send it off to be professionally heat treated. My brother's equipment for HT isn't precision.

Thanks, and sorry for the life story!
 
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Almost any of those choices would be fine. I use a good bit of Aebl and com154. Both would work nicely. As far as sources you can look at njsteelbaron.com. Cpm154 is going to be expensive because you will need 3" wide or so. Aebl is much cheaper and comparable. You could always go with 52100 or 1084 also.
 
For a thin skinner/ulu blade I would highly recommend CPM-S35VN. It is hard, stays very sharp, and is tough. It comes in .07" thickness, and Aldo or one of the other suppliers should have it in any width you want. I buy it in 7" wide sheets from Aldo. He regularly shows "out of stock" on his site, but call him about the piece you need. He often has some, but not enough to list.
If all else fails, and nobody has the piece you need, email or PM me. I think I still have two or three sheets in the shop.

Here is Aldo's site:
http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/shop/cpm-s35-vn/
 
As one who spent my boyhood in Bristol Bay and cut 500+ salmon each year (feeding family & dog team) I can say that what they are pointing you towards will work well. Not sure if you'll want it for skinning, but when cutting fish- thin thin thin! .070 is too thick, but getting any stock thinner will be hard to find. Also, if your not stuck on stainless, perhaps consider 15N20?
If you follow Stacy's recommendation for CPM-S35VN, please share your results, it sounds like it would make a great ulu.


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Thanks fellas for chiming in with feedback. I've been doing a heap more research today and I think my head is spinning.....

Seams like for every person that says steel XXX is great another says it's not. Based on your recommendation Stacy, I was hunting around for some CPM S35VN and emailed AKS to see if he might have a piece laying around. Chuck doesn't have any but says he will be placing an order soon with Crucible which includes some appropriately thin and wide CPM-20CV. Is that likely to be a good fit for the thin ulu or would it not be tough enough when at >60 HRC?

It's like trying to pick the right colour black out of 50 shades......
 
I am quite well stocked in 15n20 in the thickness your looking at. If you where just wanting to try out your idea I would be more then happy to cut out your design with my plasma cutter and send it to you to play with. I take any excuse I can get to fire up the torch ;)
 
Thanks for the comparison Stacy. I've been looking at Ankerson's thread on this forum testing and ranking various steels for edge retention and CPM 20CV (M390 equiv) seams to fair pretty well. Of course that's only one part of the performance equation, from what I've been able to glean.

And thanks JT, that is a very generous offer indeed. Problem is that the design is floating around my brain at the moment and I don't think I'd be able to do your efforts justice. I haven't really got the gear to grind the faces, etc. I've been welding and doing steelwork professionally all my life but not the precision sort of stuff required in your trade, I use my 9" grinders!

I'll probably work something up on the computer tomorrow. My plan was to mock-up a template using some 1.6mm galvanised mild steel sheet I've got laying around and post it to my brother in Oregon. I've been considering making some finger scallops on the grip and one for the thumb on the back too so I might just throw a quick and nasty pine handle on it and shape it to give my brother something to go off. Knife handles can get very slippery when they're covered in blood and I find scallops, etc can help it stay where it's meant to be.
 
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I have made a few. One was the usual curved blade like a head knife that a nephew had me make for him. It had a "T" handle with the long part of the "T" going to center of the flat curved blade. My nephew was a fairly experienced woods person who did the guiding thing pretty much all year round.He figured the ulou would be a very useful in the animal part of his work. What I got from him was to be very careful with who gave me the requests to make one, to warn them with when they went to use it to put their other hand in their back pocket. As a result I did make some with a radius of probably only 2 1/2" and the handle immediately curved to almost 90 degres. In fact they were quite popular , were easy to use, and did a reasonable job when used for skinning.
Frank
 
Any of the modern high tech steels should work well. I've never used CPM20CV, but like Stacy said, S35VN is a great steel, which I have used. We overthink things sometimes. I think the idea to make one out of cheaper steel is a good idea. See how it feels to use, then go crazy if you like it.
 
Frank, I've taken a few chunks of meat off the wrong animal (me) over the years. Might be time for one of those butcher's gloves, LOL.
 
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