Steel Blue

colu41

colu41

Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Messages
1,598
So I've been thinking about some different finishes on certain blades. I decided to pick up some Birchwood Super Blue. I tested it on a "non hardened" piece of 3v. The color was gorgeous. I absolutely loved it. I got the blades I was doing heat treated, sub zeroed, tempered, and finished up and tried applying some cold blue to it, and it didnt touch it. Is there too much Chromium in 3v that that HT enhanced it to not take the bluing? I'm actually quite disappointed in this. I had some cool plans for it....
 
Cold bluing doesn't hold up well at all, so it's just as well.
 
Thats another thing I was thinking about. Other than etching, what is the best DARK finish you can put on a blade?
 
colu41 said:
Thats another thing I was thinking about. Other than etching, what is the best DARK finish you can put on a blade?
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Cold bluing may not hold up well on very smooth surfaces, but it can hold up very well and produce a a nice deep, dark color on sandblasted or beadblasted surfaces. A coarse bead blast would be the best I believe, because it's not round like sand and there will be a lot of tiny little cuts that you can't really see but will allow more surface area exposure for the chemical, or so I've read. This makes it much more wear resistant and produces a much darker finish I'm guessing it has to do with the lack of relection due to light not really being able to get into all the "craters" as well as all blued sufaces sorta reflecting off of eachother. Or something like that. ;) This works with normal etching as well.

You could also parkerize, but it's a more involved process, although I don't think it's quite as complicated as hot bluing. I'm pretty sure this will give you the darkest color, unless you decide to set up for hot bluing, which I think is darker. Check out some of the DesRosiers' integral chef knives and you can see some great examples.

If you're interested, here's some good info on parkerizing from Brownells: http://www.brownells.com/GunTech/Manganese-Zinc-Parkerizing/detail.htm?lid=10742

... And a link to their parkerizing supplies: http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...zing/parkerizing-supplies-only-prod24778.aspx


~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)
 
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I have done a lot of parkerizing and hot bluing and the best darkest finish I have ever gotten was sandblasting and hot bluing. I have done tons and tons of gun parts and I have not found anything blacker then that. The finishe holds up nicely as well. But the cold blue is kinda a joke, onley time we would use it was to touch up a very small spot that was scratched or warn. The big problem with it is getting an even color over large surfaces. And on polished surfaces it does not want to wet the surface and spread out. It ends up giving you a blotchy finish and is NOT durable at all. So if your after dark then hot blue is the way to go with it being sandblasted befor. I have some pictures around here of what it will look like. I will try to dig them up.
 
JTknives said:
I have done a lot of parkerizing and hot bluing and the best darkest finish I have ever gotten was sandblasting and hot bluing. I have done tons and tons of gun parts and I have not found anything blacker then that.
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Not sure if you were correcting what I said or just providing more information, but just to clearify myself, when I said, "as opposed to hot bluing," I meant that parkerizing is probably the darkest, without having to get all set up for hot bluing. Basically the darkest finish just before hot bluing. I just edited it that now though as it wasn't clear the way I worded it. I re-read it and it sounded as if I was saying parkerizing was darker, and that's not what I meant. lol OK, that's all.. :D ;)

~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)
 
My Sand blasting accessibility is very limited. But I'll have to figure something out
 
Any cold steel coloring is basically a joke, including 'cold' or 'instant' black oxides. The cold black oxide solutions can be easily identified at various online resellers by the color (looks like blue Kool aid) or MSDS (copper and selenium based). I've done a lot of the cold black oxide and the outcome is very dependent on steel hardness and surface prep. I've also done a lot of black (manganese) parkerizing ... Meh.

Hot blueing and (true/hot) black oxide are essentially the same process. I've happily outsourced to http://www.blackcote.com/ in the past. Peters Heat Treating also does a great job with true/hot black oxide.

For any hot process (bluing, oxide, or parkerizing), sandblasting is recommended but not absolutely critical. If I was you, and I was determined not to outsource, I would experiment with parkerizing on a sanded test piece.

A trick I used to apply the cold black oxide was to do so with a scotch brite pad - I would dip the pad in the solution and rub it on. This seemed to help get a deep, even color. Give this a shot if you are determined to use a cold product.
 
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P.Brewster said:
Any cold steel coloring is basically a joke, including 'cold' or 'instant' black oxides. The cold black oxide solutions can be easily identified at various online resellers by the color (looks like blue Kool aid) or MSDS (copper and selenium based). I've done a lot of the cold black oxide and the outcome is very dependent on steel hardness and surface prep. I've also done a lot of black (manganese) parkerizing ... Meh.

Hot blueing and (true/hot) black oxide are essentially the same process. I've happily outsourced to http://www.blackcote.com/ in the past. Peters Heat Treating also does a great job with true/hot black oxide.

For any hot process (bluing, oxide, or parkerizing), sandblasting is recommended but not absolutely critical. If I was you, and I was determined not to outsource, I would experiment with parkerizing on a sanded test piece.

A trick I used to apply the cold black oxide was to do so with a scotch brite pad - I would dip the pad in the solution and rub it on. This seemed to help get a deep, even color. Give this a shot if you are determined to use a cold product.
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Can you point me to a product to try? I'll try anything within reason.
 
colu41 said:
Can you point me to a product to try? I'll try anything within reason.
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Sure - you can find 'cold black oxide' under many different names. Here is one http://amzn.com/B0000C51WN

Like I said, you can identify the stuff by the color and copper/selenium in the MSDS http://sds.chemtel.net/webclients/safariland/archive/Kleen-Bore Black Magic.pdf

If you look at the MSDS for your Birchwood Super Blue https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/geta...432,13489-Super-Blue-Liquid-Gun-Blue.pdf.aspx - you'll see that it is the same basic ingredients, but more diluted.

A friend of mine uses cold black oxide gel with good results: http://www.caswellplating.com/black-oxide-gel-kit.html

Also you might want to try Caswell's stainless steel blackener http://www.caswellplating.com/metal-finishing-solutions/stainless-steel-blackener.html
 
P.Brewster said:
Sure - you can find 'cold black oxide' under many different names. Here is one http://amzn.com/B0000C51WN

Like I said, you can identify the stuff by the color and copper/selenium in the MSDS http://sds.chemtel.net/webclients/safariland/archive/Kleen-Bore Black Magic.pdf

If you look at the MSDS for your Birchwood Super Blue https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/geta...432,13489-Super-Blue-Liquid-Gun-Blue.pdf.aspx - you'll see that it is the same basic ingredients, but more diluted.

A friend of mine uses cold black oxide gel with good results: http://www.caswellplating.com/black-oxide-gel-kit.html

Also you might want to try Caswell's stainless steel blackener http://www.caswellplating.com/metal-finishing-solutions/stainless-steel-blackener.html
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Thanks P.B. The only thing I worry about with these "oxide" style colorings, is if they will work on steels like CPM 3v. I try to stay away from straight carbon steels, so 3v will probably be the most non stainless I will do other than when making a billet of damascus.
 
colu41 said:
Thanks P.B. The only thing I worry about with these "oxide" style colorings, is if they will work on steels like CPM 3v. I try to stay away from straight carbon steels, so 3v will probably be the most non stainless I will do other than when making a billet of damascus.
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Understood - that is why I suggested the stainless steel blackener.
 
Thanks Patrick. I first looked at that cold black oxide in the first link and figured that would be similar to the cold blue but, I may try out that SS blackened.
 
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