Steel choices for axes

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Jul 28, 2019
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Greetings,

I am looking into having a Norwegian style carpenters axe, essentially a Lafte Bile style axe. I'm currently looking at a few different makers and wanted to inquire about the ideal steel for such an axe since they're quite a bit thinner than a typical axe. One maker I was considering uses either 4140 or 01 and I was hoping to get some thoughts on those. Which, if either, of those would you prefer for an axe of this style? If neither, what would another suggestion be? I'm a woodworker through & through and I'll admit my knowledge of various steels is limited which I fully intend to remedy in the coming years, the little free time I have for research goes into traditional framing & joinery methods. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
 
Greetings,

I am looking into having a Norwegian style carpenters axe, essentially a Lafte Bile style axe. I'm currently looking at a few different makers and wanted to inquire about the ideal steel for such an axe since they're quite a bit thinner than a typical axe. One maker I was considering uses either 4140 or 01 and I was hoping to get some thoughts on those. Which, if either, of those would you prefer for an axe of this style? If neither, what would another suggestion be? I'm a woodworker through & through and I'll admit my knowledge of various steels is limited which I fully intend to remedy in the coming years, the little free time I have for research goes into traditional framing & joinery methods. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
While I can't answer your questions you've come to the right place. Somebody will be able to give you guidance. And welcome to the forum!
 
4140 should be good, O1 is tough for knife steel but I'm not sure it would be ideal for an axe. 1055, 1075 and 1085 is a pretty standard steel and 6150, 80crv2, and 5160 are some of the "premium" options. I'm sure someone uses 1065 but it's one I don't see much, seems like it's either 1055 or jumps up to 1075. There are plenty of others but these are probably the most common I've seen.

I've had a small hawk in 52100 as well and it was great. Holds a very nice edge and is tough enough, but it was a solid, one piece of steel so the forces around the eye and such weren't a concern.

Really, you want to use something you're maker is good with since HT is pretty important. I would go with the 4140, of the two you mentioned. I would worry about O1 breaking over time with use since it has a pretty high carbon content for axe steel. I'm partial to 5160 myself if given the choice but plenty of other good options. I'm still learning about 80crv2 but I know it gets a lot of praise.
 
Thank you to all who have weighed in thus far, greatly appreciate the feedback. Looks like 4140 will be the best option in this case due to the smith's comfort level & experience with that particular steel. I was apprehensive about the 01 to begin with so this is helping tremendously. Thanks again & I look forward to input from anyone else who wishes to chime in!
 
4140 might be better than O1 but neither are a great choice for an axe. Both are OK. The O1 would need to be well tempered.

The 10XX series steels are a good choice. A great many axes were made with 1060 (and a few still are). It's a good basic steel for a quality axe and isn't terribly difficult to forge or heat treat. The USFS and some industries have specified that the bit of an axe be made of plain carbon steel (like the 10XX series) with at least 72 points of carbon.

If your smith is planning to make your axe out of a single piece of steel then I would ask for 1060. If he's in Europe then the equivalent steel would be C60.

The other option is to ask him to make an axe body of lower carbon steel and forge weld in a bit of higher carbon steel like 1075, 1080 or 1085. This would make for a very high quality axe.
 
I would recommend a steel that can be both forged and simply heat treated. Some variant of simpler high carbon steel would be your best bet. 1075-1095 or 5160 would all be excellent.
 
After having worked with some good smids over the years it finally got through my thick skull that it is not my place to be telling him, and even yes, sometimes her - I've worked with a woman smid or two - the material he or she should be using. The smid wants to be able to deliver the best product, has expertise built up about suitable material. The time I insisted on a specific steel, while the result was excellent because the smid was skilled, he was not happy in the end and more important is to keep your smid happy, only then will you get the good results and a willing collaboration the next time. If in fact this is not the case and the smid is looking for advise from the woodworker, I'd say look for another smid.
 
I think I know the forge the OP is talking about. I think 4140 isn't ideal, even if it will work. I think smiths using it for axes do so because it's easy to work, and is passable for most contemporary (low use) users. The carbon content is just so low. But at the super reasonable prices (for hand forged) of the pieces he's referring to, either will do. Honestly, I would probably be okay with O1 for something that size. I've seen large O1 knives with good HT abused incredibly and come out on top. O1 and 4140 are kind of at opposite ends of the spectrum for this use. It would be nice if he would offer something like a 1075 or 108x as happy medium, but as Earnest notes, I think it's best to let an artisan use what he knows. I'd talk directly to the smith about it, and see what he says about his O1 heat treat for toughness.
 
Square Peg hit on something that could be interesting, having the edge be one steel and the outer be another. If the smith can do a core of O1 and the rest 4140, that would make a pretty sweet axe. I know that's been done on many axes, not sure if those steels are compatible with that method because of HT protocol differences.

H&B Forge does this, just to name one, and I know I've seen a few of the custom axes and hawks on the forum have a similar construction.
 
I have a H&B with a forge welded 1095 bit. Somewhat close to O1. They temper it down to 55hrc, as I'm told. I'm not super fond of the design, but the bit holds up well.
 
I would suggest 5160. It's easy to get a hold of, and even with a forge heat treat and a cracked blade, I was able to hammer on the spine without further damage. It is a real tough steel.
 
I would say trust the guy making it. If you do, no need to worry, if you don't, find another maker.
 
5160 can be a little more sensitive to heat treating than 1060. Whichever your smith is most familiar with is the better choice.
 
Arcanepaths,all of the advice above is spot on,and thoroughly covers the jist of your question.

To add a bit of detail,for what it's worth:
The Hardenability of any steel alloy is a product of isothermic reaction of iron,Fe,and carbon,C.

In Addition to that people have learned to use other alloying elements,such as Chromium,Vanadium,Molybdenum,et c.,to further alter the physical qualities of the resulting alloy.

These other alloying elements bear on innumerable aspects of an alloy,but for us as woodworkers one specific difference is important,and this is how the "plain" carbon steel differs from the more complex alloy:

Simplistic,primitive way of looking at the hardened steel is where the soft,viscous,tough Iron matrix contains/holds/retains hard particles,Carbides,much like soft cement mix contains hard pebbles and sand grains.

In the case of Plain,otherwise unalloyed steel,those hard grains are Fine,very small as compared to higher-alloyed steel.(it is actually visible under(significant)magnification).
Because of their size the edge of your tool is a thin ragged edge much like a fine-toothed saw.
At contacting the material that you're cutting these fine jagged teeth immediately penetrate into it,with very little force necessary to effect that penetration.
In English,your cut has begun,and you can now rearrange your muscles to just control the tool's passage through the material.

Conversely,a higher-alloyed steel(most notably Cr based,which is nearly everything),has Carbides that protrude out of the edge that are Much larger;like the size of gravel used in your concrete mix has been increased.
These carbides look like large,rounded boulders(vs plain C alloy's ones),and take more effort for you to sink them into material and to maintain that continuing penetration.

So,in effect,it can be said that the higher-alloyed steel edge can never be as "sharp" as a plain-carbon edge.

Obviously there's All sorts of obverse sides to this medal,like the amount of work that plain C steel can accomplish between sharpenings and on and on...

But to some users(butchers,notably among these),this principle is important enough to put up with the lack of corrosion resistance,necessity for frequent dressing of the edge,et c.

Now,an axe is a specific tool,and the axe in question here is Very specific,it has a given,pre-determined edge geometry.
The angle of that edge is not that fine(relatively speaking,as compared to a butcher knife,a straight razor,scalpel et c).The mass of the tool is also greater.
So the described effect would be less obvious,less Felt.

And that brings us back to why the alloys used in axe manufacturing were historically uncomplicated,and thus also back to the solid common-sensical advise from the community above.

But,in some Very minor(if not microscopic)sense,a 10xx series alloy(in AISI system of designation 1 is code for Carbon as the main alloying element)edge will cut "easier",be easier to maintain the depth of cut,"grab" the wood readier than the edge of O1 or 5160(both Chrome-based alloys,way in excess of 1+% of C).
They'll have this tiny tendency to slide,to skate,on the medium being cut.
 
Jake, thank you so much for laying it out in this way so we can understand it in plain English for all to see it that for the one who prioritizes the potential for getting at the keenest of edges the simple combination of pure iron and with a carbon content of between 0,5 and 1%, foregoing all other added metals to the degree possible is, what's called for.
 
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