Steel selection for competition cutter

B

Blademange

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Nov 19, 2013
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Hello all.

I have been making knives for several years. I recently watched a few of the Bladesports cutting competitions and I decided I want to try my hand at building myself a competition cutter. Ultimately I will build one out of M4, but for my first one I would like to use something that is a little more forgiving and less expensive to make my initial mistakes on. I have built knives from M4 before, but a competition cutter is a whole different breed.

I am thinking I will use either O1 or 1095. Both are readily available, cheap, and both have solid reputations. In addition, I can easily differentialy heat treat them, which may increase performance in this application. I respectfully ask your opinion regarding steel selection, as well as any other pointers you may have regarding competition cutters.

Thank you
 
I think M4 is the automatic first pick, but it indeed is $$$, if you goof or change your mind.

I believe that 5160 is found on some comp cutters. Honestly, if you just go with any more common carbon that you can get a good price, it should be more than sufficient for test purposes.

I have been doing research into choppers for a customer commission, and I agree that in absence of M4, differentially treated carbon is attractive.
 
Bladesports is something I'm interested in, mostly because I need a showcase for my pythons.

Kidding.

Seriously though, look at the top contenders and who they are sponsored by. Sounds like you've already done that since you've settled on m4 for an advanced project. Andy from Fiddleback uses o1 for his knife that falls into (I believe), the custom knife bracket. I asked recently about the knife, but haven't heard much about how it performs.

I don't know what your level of skill is as a knifemaker, but m4 seems to be the clear winner and I know for certain that I can't make a Benchmade or Fiddleback beater. M4 is amazing, but an enormous chunk of the stuff cannot be cheap. I'm not much of a knifemaker, but if I wanted to try, I'd have a closer look at the winning knives, and if that didn't sway me, I'd go with o1.

I think it's like other sports that have mid-level (price wise) and super high end equipment. Past a limit on certain qualities, it mostly comes down to the practice and skill of the opponent/competitor. Hopefully someone with more experience can chime in.
 
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My personal cutter and a couple of guys I cut with are made from O1. All of the knives perform much better than the guys using them. If I were to make another one (and I probably will) I would choose 1084 or W2.
 
M4, 3V, 52100, O-1, 1095, even 5160....all have been winners at competitions. The thing that really matters is a steel that you can HT dead perfect. After the HT, geometry is far more important than the steel.
 
I would go with 52100 or 80crv2 (1080+). But as Stacy said dont matter what steel you get if you cant HT it properly.
 
bladsmth said:
M4, 3V, 52100, O-1, 1095, even 5160....all have been winners at competitions. The thing that really matters is a steel that you can HT dead perfect. After the HT, geometry is far more important than the steel.
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That is what I thought. One should use steel he is super sure he can treat perfectly.
This HT should provide steel that can keep VERY steep angle and withstand impacts at micro and macro scale. "Just" those three requirements :D
 
Thank you guys. This is all valuable information. Another question I have is how thick the blade should be. I haven't had much luck finding specs for comp cutters, but they look pretty beefy, bigger than .25". Anybody know how thick the guys are building them?

Thank you
 
Do not overlook the option of PD 1 or even CPM 4V.
 
1/4" is fine. The forging guys make a few with thicker spines, buy I think 1/4" is the norm. Again, the geometry of the grind is far more important than the mass.
 
Look for the stats on the Benchmade chopper. I would but I'm in a hurry. I say Benchmade because I know there are videos, and stats shouldn't be hard to find.

Thing is basically a huge wedge with a blunt tip. A chopper defined.
 
CPM M4 is the king, of course, but it is spendy. Peter's HT does a good job with it. 3V is good too, but also expensive. You see 5160, 52100, and O1 used but I've never seen them win. If cost is a constraint I'd use a quality American made A2 at around HRC 62. It has high impact resistance and fine edge stability at higher hardness.

A competition cutter is a balance between avoiding edge roll and edge chipping, and a thin edge at the risk of cracking. Even though I would not normally suggest subjecting an untempered chopper to full cryo before temper, I believe a competition cutter is an application for that.
 
AC Richards won with 52100 but this was a while back (2005 I think maybe 2007). Ofcourse alot has probably changed since then.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
CPM M4 is the king, of course, but it is spendy. Peter's HT does a good job with it. 3V is good too, but also expensive. You see 5160, 52100, and O1 used but I've never seen them win. If cost is a constraint I'd use a quality American made A2 at around HRC 62. It has high impact resistance and fine edge stability at higher hardness.

A competition cutter is a balance between avoiding edge roll and edge chipping, and a thin edge at the risk of cracking. Even though I would not normally suggest subjecting an untempered chopper to full cryo before temper, I believe a competition cutter is an application for that.
Click to expand...

I would start with inexpensive steel. To make a competition knife maker have to design proper geometry and ergonomy. One knife might not be enough.
 
Any of those will work fine with excellent HT. I have another alloy in mind, but I'm not going to discuss it until the prototype is ready... ;)
 
The blade can be no more than 10" long and no wider than 2". Most of the cutters I've seen are 1/4" thick, some thicker, some thinner. Cutting competitions test the steel but also design. Mass helps in the power stroke cuts, thinner blades are great for the fineness cuts, lighter blades when speed helps, edge geometry is very important. Everything is a compromise.
 
blade sports cutting competition, 20% knife 80% skills
but people refine the 20% more than do practicing :-)

it's all to about thinning out the grind until it chips and make the just a little thicker, heat treatment thereby is very important
balance is important it needs tip heavy, but not to much as it will be bad to steer the blade with the fast precision cuts
i try to have the center off gravity about 1-1/2 " out the handle, works for me ( 2x4 chopping is done with the first 3 inch out the handle )
my first blade was O1 learned allot from that beast,
but the Benchmade / Osbourne CPM M4 out performs it, and it always get's me smiling to see the blade go in the wood almost the full width first blow
technique and practice makes the cutter
 
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