Ive read a lot of posts on s30v on how it holds a razor edge for a short while adn then it holds a decent edge for a a while. What steel will hold a razor edge for a long time and can be touched up quickly on a strop. I have a carbon steel kitchen knife that is so easy to sharpen it can whittle hairs and i strop it for about 10 minutes once a week and it stays very sharp. I use this knife very day. Would a carbon steel hold a razor edge longer or a higher end super steel such as m4 or vg10 or zpd189??
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Steel That Holds A Razor Edge The Best??
- Thread starter snorkem
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A real razor edge is extremely delicate. A steel with a small carbide fraction & very small individual carbides would not have the same issues of carbide tearout at the edge, but the edge does not last very long doing much of anything. In doing some edge testing, I cut some sewing thread on a digital scale to measure the force needed. I started with the wrong kind of thread, not string or rope, and looking at the razor under magnification, I saw that the edge was being destroyed.
I have not experienced what hardheart encountered, but I don't know what kind of edge he had.
Of the steels I've tested, M2 has held a very sharp edge the longest. These steels were all from different manufacturers, and the M2 was the hardest by far. 154CM from Benchmade was second, and the rest were scattered about. The various manufacturers were Buck (425M), Benchmade (154CM, 440C), Spyderco (VG-10), Schrade (1095), Cold Steel (AUS-8), and Kershaw (AUS-6, 440A, S60V). The M2 knife came from a power hacksaw blade without a soft back. There were some other knives with unknown steels, but they didn't do very well, so I didn't include them. RADA Cutlery has some fine cutting blades, with spines only 1/32" thick, but the very edges dull quickly. My Food Network small gyuto(sp?) did well, but had chipping issues, to the point that I have to cut into the stone every time I sharpen it to remove them. The S60V held a working edge for a long time, but that knife is long gone, so I don't remember how well it did compared to the others.
The M2 cut a lot of cardboard and would still shave hair above the skin. It cut about 45' of cardboard on the same 1" of edge and never lost it's shaving ability. I cut cardboard until the edge would no longer slice a plastic grocery bag to test and compare all the above knives. M4 may do even better, but I've not tried it. Higher hardness with adequate toughness is, IMO, the key to a sharp edge that lasts a while. You need the high hardness to keep the edge from rolling.
Of the steels I've tested, M2 has held a very sharp edge the longest. These steels were all from different manufacturers, and the M2 was the hardest by far. 154CM from Benchmade was second, and the rest were scattered about. The various manufacturers were Buck (425M), Benchmade (154CM, 440C), Spyderco (VG-10), Schrade (1095), Cold Steel (AUS-8), and Kershaw (AUS-6, 440A, S60V). The M2 knife came from a power hacksaw blade without a soft back. There were some other knives with unknown steels, but they didn't do very well, so I didn't include them. RADA Cutlery has some fine cutting blades, with spines only 1/32" thick, but the very edges dull quickly. My Food Network small gyuto(sp?) did well, but had chipping issues, to the point that I have to cut into the stone every time I sharpen it to remove them. The S60V held a working edge for a long time, but that knife is long gone, so I don't remember how well it did compared to the others.
The M2 cut a lot of cardboard and would still shave hair above the skin. It cut about 45' of cardboard on the same 1" of edge and never lost it's shaving ability. I cut cardboard until the edge would no longer slice a plastic grocery bag to test and compare all the above knives. M4 may do even better, but I've not tried it. Higher hardness with adequate toughness is, IMO, the key to a sharp edge that lasts a while. You need the high hardness to keep the edge from rolling.
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I'm referring to literal razors with the edge damage from thread. I think it is at B&B where someone did the same. I have come to view a razor edge as something different from just a highly polished edge, the angle and thickness are important in making the distinction. An obtuse and polished edge will have a different durability. Even levels of polish vary, since people are shaving with edges created by abrasives of greatly different sizes, shapes, friability, etc.
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Of the steels I've used, CPM M4 is best for what you're talking about. I touch my M4 blades up on a wood strop loaded with 100k diamond powder. The edge is great for use in the kitchen.
And is really does take a "razor" edge, but I'd never use these for anything but shaving.
And is really does take a "razor" edge, but I'd never use these for anything but shaving.
So you were using something like a straight razor or replacement razor blade? Mine were considerably thicker than those. It was about 10 degrees per side, convex, sharpened/ground on a belt sander and power stropped after worn 180 grit belt. I'm using light sewing thread and haven't seen damage, but I haven't looked under magnification either.
I don't think that the steel has as much to do with it as the grind. I have blades of 1085 that all I have to do is strop. They are also flat ground with a full convex.
I have knives with lot's better steel but then they are v grinds and don't perform as well even though the steel is better.
I have knives with lot's better steel but then they are v grinds and don't perform as well even though the steel is better.
I'm not sure what you mean by flat ground with full convex. AFAIK, you cant have both.
Different steels are better at different things. Your 1085 is an excellent steel for keeping a high push cutting edge for a long time. "Better" is relative. If the other steels dont perform, they are not better. Also, geometry has at least as much to do with performance as steel choice, so if the geometry is different, and the steel is different, about all you can say is this knife is better, and leave steel out of it.
Therefore, I will modify my ranking above. My M2 knife with a 10 degree convex zero edge on 0.55" thick stock will hold a razor edge longer than all the other knives I've tested, whatever their steel and geometry.
Different steels are better at different things. Your 1085 is an excellent steel for keeping a high push cutting edge for a long time. "Better" is relative. If the other steels dont perform, they are not better. Also, geometry has at least as much to do with performance as steel choice, so if the geometry is different, and the steel is different, about all you can say is this knife is better, and leave steel out of it.
Therefore, I will modify my ranking above. My M2 knife with a 10 degree convex zero edge on 0.55" thick stock will hold a razor edge longer than all the other knives I've tested, whatever their steel and geometry.
nozh2002
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Yes.
But keep in mind that steel itself is nothing until it is heat treated by PRO.
Jody Muller 1095 is on the top while production 1095 is in the middle by my performance test.
Thanks, Vassili.
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The kitchen knives were ground from 1/8" stock to an edge thickness of .012". The edge bevel is about 10-degrees per side, finished on a progression of stones to the 8k waterstone, then stropped with 100k diamond and untreated horsebutt. The razors have an asymmetrical hollow grind to an edge thickness of .007" and have zero-edges. Edge finish on the razors is the same as the kitchen knives.
I would only consider a blade as being "razor" sharp when it gives you a truly comfortable shave. The kitchen knives do not do that, due to the (relatively) obtuse edge geometry. The CPM M4 razors, on the other hand, do provide very smooth shaves, and they are holding their edge better than any other razor I've used.
Phillip