Steel types used in construction equipment

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MrDan

Joined
Jan 17, 2011
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5
Hi folks. First time poster so a quick background.

I'm a hobby/crazy person/curious/beginning knife maker/crazy person. Yes crazy is there twice. I'm mostly self taught in all my endeavors, seeking out advice when and where I can. Knife making isn't my main focus, just something else I'm doing in the shop. I work with all kinds of metal, including gun smithing and machining. I also do some welding. I own a cattle farm and basically this is all stuff that I do in the winter when it's too cold to be outside. I made my first forge recently, seen here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtvRRau9hLM

On to my question, I also am affiliated with a heavy equipment dealership. Part of the appeal of what I'm doing is I basically have unlimited supplies of scrap metal.

I'm trying to determine a specific type of metal used in our industry from which I can make knives. These are for my own use or to be giving to others, I have no commercial interests. Concerning finding that correct types of metal, I found this thread here: (Yes I looked before just blurting out my question)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486910

Based on the above I'm going to grab some track pins, which we throw away routinely, as soon as we do another undercarriage job. My question is, has anyone actually worked with track pins to try and make something useful and if so how did it go? Also, has anyone worked with anything else? Cutting edges? Track shoes? I know bearing races are supposed to by 15N20 and I can get those but I'm looking for what else is usable from heavy equipment. I do have some charts for what scrap is what type of metal but it's not the most comprehensive listing. At 10c per pound for scrap, it's in my best interest to scavenge what I can, especially as I learn and make mistakes. There are less tears if you only have time invested and not money.

Please note I'm not asking about junk yard scrap, but specifically anything related to heavy industrial equipment (think John Deere and Caterpillar) which we already have on site. I'd feel silly if I found out that I'm buying stock steel on Monday and throwing away 2 tons of the same steel on Friday out of the back door at work.

Thank you, and if this was answered in a previous thread, I'm sorry. I couldn't find it.
 
It's probably not going to be simple to determine because most of the parts used in your heavy equipment only have tensile strength requirements. Even the steels that must be hardened and tempered for bearings, springs etc. may not remain static, as they just have to be A. the cheapest available and B. meet whatever minimum requirements for the part.

Basically, whatever you get is going to be a guess unless you have it analyzed. That may be fine for your application, however. In any case, you're probably going to just have to do some testing if you don't want to source known steel.
 
It's probably well worth your while to pick some likely candidates, maybe based on other's comments in this thread, and pay to have them analyzed. Certainly John Deere has a reputation for using high quality, consistent steel types for some components.

I agree that your's isn't the typical junkyard steel situation.
 
AcridSaint said:
It's probably not going to be simple to determine because most of the parts used in your heavy equipment only have tensile strength requirements. Even the steels that must be hardened and tempered for bearings, springs etc. may not remain static, as they just have to be A. the cheapest available and B. meet whatever minimum requirements for the part.

Basically, whatever you get is going to be a guess unless you have it analyzed. That may be fine for your application, however. In any case, you're probably going to just have to do some testing if you don't want to source known steel.
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I figure I'll find out how it works after some experimenting, as suggested. I'm just hoping to come across someone who may have already gone down this road. I do figure that even though metals will change from model to model and over time, they shouldn't vary that much. Again, I'm not selling the knives or whatever I make.

Thanks for the feedback. I've learned a lot from this board, especially the stickies.
 
If you have a forge hammer one of the pins flat and get it past magnetic and quench it in water. Next put it in a vise and attempt to bend it. If it breaks cleanly it has potential as a knife. If it bends throw it in the scrap pile.
CW
 
Load shafts out of john deers tractors r a consistent source of high quality 5160. Seek knifemaker ed fowled for info on this. He's a forum member and could give u better details on this.
 
bladsmth said:
How did you know this?????
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I did some research on this prior to asking my question. I hate being the guy who asks what is already in the sticky or gets asked every other day by a newbie. Using the amazing powers of my google-fu I came across a chart/spreadsheet/something or other which listed different metals in different applications. So I KNOW that bearings are SUPPOSED to be 15N20. I think supposed is really the key word. If you'd really like to know where I can go back and see if I made a bookmark of the chart or info or whatever.
 
justintyme said:
Load shafts out of john deers tractors r a consistent source of high quality 5160. Seek knifemaker ed fowled for info on this. He's a forum member and could give u better details on this.
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Load shafts? Is that like a driveline shaft? The drive shaft from a hydraulic pump? I know I should know this but maybe we call it another name.

Btw, one of the reasons I'm asking is because we have a scrap metal bin that I could literally drop a car in and it would disappear. Grabbing different pieces usually involves a excavator, an oxy torch, a bit of rigging, and a good hour of work to get the piece. If sure helps to narrow down to look for one particular thing.

I'm going to get a track pin as soon as I can get in the bin and try it to see what works. I don't have any rockwell hardness testing gear or the skills to judge knife quality but if it works I can relay that information here. Track pins are tossed for scrap in pretty much every major town in the US.
 
I think what Stacy is getting at is that unless there's a written spec that requires 15N20, we don't know what it's supposed to be. I'd be rather surprised if it were used for bearing races as it doesn't seem to provide any mechanical properties that make it better than other carbon steels and the small bit of stain resistance that the nickel provides isn't really any help. The problem with Internet sources, even other knifemakers who use parts from tractors, is that they often are not verifiable.

If you're going to need this much time and labor, it seems that buying steel shouldn't really be out of the question for you. I don't know what it costs to run the equipment or what your time is worth, but for an hour's worth of my time I can buy a fair bit of carbon steel.
 
MrDan said:
I did some research on this prior to asking my question. I hate being the guy who asks what is already in the sticky or gets asked every other day by a newbie. Using the amazing powers of my google-fu I came across a chart/spreadsheet/something or other which listed different metals in different applications. So I KNOW that bearings are SUPPOSED to be 15N20. I think supposed is really the key word. If you'd really like to know where I can go back and see if I made a bookmark of the chart or info or whatever.
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A fellow on the forum worked for a bearing supplier.
Scott Ickies

There are many different materials used in bearings,depending on the size, application, and manufacturer.

He would look up the materials by model #.

Some were 52100, some case hardened and useless for knives.
I don't remember 15n20 mentioned in those discussions at all.

You can't trust those charts in any respect.
 
I believe Dozer blades are sometimes D2 - or I think I saw that once...

Most professional knifemakers will say to scrap the scrap and buy known steel. But since you just want something to do during your off season, just see if one will harden in water. If it does, see how well it does in oil (canola or ATF) and give it a general temper in the oven around 400 degrees for an hour.

I know this won't make an optimal knife since it is a very general HT procedure. It may not even make a knife at all, but a knife shaped object. But it may also give you a handy tool to use around the ranch.
 
What I was getting at is that you often read on a google search that saw blades are 15N20; and bearings are 52100.......But you don't know that .

I have personally never seen 15N20 attributed to bearing races.

Online searches are great for a lot of things, but for steel analysis,they suck. I have placed the metal in many positions around the monitor and even set it on the disc drive tray....still the printer prints out no analysis report. Must be my old computer, I bet the new I-phones have an app for that.
 
bladsmth said:
What I was getting at is that you often read on a google search that saw blades are 15N20; and bearings are 52100.......But you don't know that .

I have personally never seen 15N20 attributed to bearing races.

Online searches are great for a lot of things, but for steel analysis,they suck. I have placed the metal in many positions around the monitor and even set it on the disc drive tray....still the printer prints out no analysis report. Must be my old computer, I bet the new I-phones have an app for that.
Click to expand...

That's good to know. I supposedly have one of the new Verizon iPhone's coming according to our IT guy. I'll have to hold it up next to my scrap metal and see what it does. :)
 
It's the load control shaft, AKA rock shaft, that has been verified several times from John Deere to be 5160. This shaft is part of the three-point hitch system on farm tractors. They sort of "float" in carriage under the tractor and, when the seals start leaking the shaft is usually replaced as well. A gentleman named Dan Grey used to post here and did the legwork sourcing this steel, I believe from drops or cut-offs from the manufacturor of the shafts for John Deere.
 
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