Steel vs Aluminum Behnke file guide?

I have the aluminum one. It has held up well. The steel will allow you to tighten down tighter without cracking the carbide insert as it doesn’t take too kindly to bending. The aluminum allows for plenty of clamping force to be applied for our typical uses.
 
I have the alum Benke and a steel one from riverside. The alum is obviously much lighter and works great for folder blades.
The steel one i use for kitchen knives
 
If you plan on using it for a lot of plunge and bevel grinding I would probably go with the aluminum one, as I have a steel version from Bruce Bump which, for me is pretty heavy and cumbersome when trying to hold and use when grinding plunges, at least on smaller to mid sized blades. It is very well made and I'm certainly happy I got it, I just tend not to use it much for plunges when grinding, but will use it to tidy them up by hand and get them spot on symmetrical after rough grinding them in. It's perfect for squaring up tang shoulders as I can really crank it down so I don't have to worry about it moving a thousandth this way or that way when grinding and/or filing them.

A little headache saving tip I learned from Nick Wheeler: Using a post-it note under each side of the file-guide can really help to get a better grip to the knife so it's not just steel to steel, which can be more prone to slip, especially if your ricasso is really short and has little surface area to clamp to.

~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (Just some older videos of some older knives I've made in the past)
 
I have both and like the steel one more. The aluminum one is fine you just have to be really careful with it and I’m not a really careful person.
 
I have the aluminium version and like it a lot. The aluminium really sticks to the blanks. And it’s really light and low maintenance.

Edit: I might add that I've used my for about three years, and a lot of knives.
 
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I have the aluminum version and like it a lot.
Had the carbide pop off, I found the best glue to reapply is contact cement
 
I have an aluminum version, but will be buying a steel version to replace it. I just don't like how the aluminum flexes if you accidentally crank it down.
 
I like the aluminum if setting plunge lines on your grinder. Steel in a vise
 
I have the alum Benke and a steel one from riverside. The alum is obviously much lighter and works great for folder blades.
The steel one i use for kitchen knives

The steel guide from Riverside is in a League of it's own!! By far the best guide made by anyone.
 
I use a 2nd gen, Bruce Bump carbide file guide (steel). It's a really good file guide and I've always been pleased to have it. BUT, I was at my bud's ( javand javand ) shop last week and he showed me his Riverside carbide file guide (steel) and it is impressive how well it is machined and assembled. I also like the much larger carbide surface compared to my Bump guide. If I ever feel inclined to replace mine or just pick up another, the Riverside will be at the top of the list for sure!
 
I have the aluminum one as well and I like it, though I only got it recently and have only used it a few times. Bill was on the Knife Talk podcast, and if I remember right, he prefers the aluminum and only made the steel one because people asked him to, assuming that it would last longer or something. I might be misrepresenting what he said, it’s been a while since I listened to that episode.
 
Another thing to consider, and something that's glommed over by many; simply grinding the cabide together (doesn't everyone?) isn't enough to ensure alignment, yes, this will make sure they're on-plane with each other when it's closed, but the alignment pins, their seats and mating holes are *critical* here. Otherwise, even though the guide may be "perfectly" flat and parallel closed, doesn't mean they will be once the sides are separated and clamped to a knife.

I haven't used the Behnke guides, but I mention this above, since looking at the link, implies that just grinding them together is all that's necessary. In a perfect world the holes for the pins, should be spotted and bored for press fit precision dowel pins, and just to clearance for the receiving side. Maybe these are, I'm just mentioning it.

I had two of the original Bruce Bump file guides, and maybe I'm mistaken, but I think these evolved from those? I got one of the extra-wide and one of the standard width ones from some of the early offerings, and while I did keep the wide one, I eventually passed the standard width one along to an ABS School student, because I wasn't happy with it. I wanted to love them, because I always have issues with tools rusting in my shop due to the climate. In the end, I replaced it with a Riverside one (kept the wide one for the rare case that I'd need it), which ultimately, was just much better built.

The ones I had (have), do not have precision dowel pins, although they are hard, but the alignment is bad enough that it wants to bind especially at certain points, and the accuracy isn't what I expect, across the faces, one was worse than the other. However, my main gripe, was that the narrower carbide, especially in relation to the file guide body itself, made it much easier when "riding the carbide" face, to rock or not intuitively be able to feel "flat".

The Behnke guides have slightly wider carbide at 5/16"(0.3125") according to the website, where as the older Bruce Bump ones were around 0.260", this is an upgrade, however, the Riverside ones use 1/2"(0.500") wide carbide which is seated in a relieved pocket, and also slightly thicker at a full 1/8". Mine, and the others I've seen at other maker's shops, are all very well aligned, with accurately bored and parallel to the carbide, very accurate, and smooth sliding pins. The overall width is 1.25", which with the half inch per side carbide faces, gives a very nice "sweet spot" to me, in terms of feedback and intuitiveness when using it with a grinder. You always know when you're riding the flats of the carbide, or once you've reached flat. I believe the bodies are hardened also, either way, while they're not as corrosion resistant as the 416 ones, they've not had any major rust issues. For me, and I've carried mine all over the world at this point.

They generally just clamp more evenly, and don't bind or have any issues releasing like the others did.


Which leads me to one of the reasons I wouldn't buy an aluminum one, and I want to be clear when I say that I wouldn't hesitate to buy an aluminum bodied belt grinder (and I refuse to use steel tooling arms, or platen plates, etc, where wear isn't a concern) or numerous other things, that generally people think *have* to be made from steel: flex. Forget the durability concerns, which, having dropped my file guide about a 100 times (carbide still completely intact and like new btw, and I've gotten it smoking hot grinding, and the carbide has never come loose), I can tell you, is a concern; but just the flexibility of aluminum that small, would be of great worry to me. You want to crank your file guide down TIGHT, especially on a less than perfectly (and I mean accurate to sub-thousandths of an inch) flat and parallel surface, because otherwise, the blade or fitting, can, and will, move inside the guide. Flex not only will reduce holding when really tight, but compound the mating, and alignment issues, and I also think, increase the likeliness of getting the screws stuck. Which is another major concern, galvanic corrosion: I often dunk my work piece, guide and all, in water to cool, mixed materials, such as aluminum and those hardened steel screws, will exacerbate galvanic corrosion of the aluminum inside those threaded holes, if this happens, when you've got it torqued down tight, and you set it down for a few days like that, don't be surprised if you have to destroy the file guide to get your blade loose.

I've got a tooling arm that is aluminum with oxide coated bolts like that inside blind threaded holes, holding a tool rest on, that I eventually had to cut off, because I broke the cores out of the bolt heads trying to remove them, with some extreme methods of trying to break them loose in the first place.

I can see how the softer aluminum does make the guide "grip" better in certain circumstances and torque loads on the screws, but for the way *I* use a file guide, I wouldn't want it. I've got no skin in this game, and nothing against anybody, like I said, I still keep my wide clearance stainless Bump guide for the rare situation where I need it, and I knew i couldn't make one for the same price at the time. I haven't used the newer ones, so my issues with the older ones may have been addressed, and in fairness, accuracy is always relative to the user, their expectations, and their level of insanity when it comes to the pursuit of "perfection".

The question of aluminum, just my opinion, based on my experiences. No matter who you go with, I'd pick steel for this sort of tool.


Edit to add: maybe I've got this Bump/Behnke connection all wrong, I just remember Bruce stopped making them and someone else started, but I know he was offering them in stainless also. Either way, I think the above things merit consideration regardless. My point being, that the Riverside guide is the standard which the rest must live up to.
 
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Definitely some good points to keep in mind, javand javand :thumbsup:

FWIW, I just double checked some things on my B. Bump guide and you are correct, the carbide faces are .250" wide, 1/8" thick, and 3/4 of the thickness is set into a milled relief in the faces. Looks like the carbide inserts are set in place with JB Weld, which fills the extra space in the milled relief.

One thing than can be good or bad, is the carbide faces are set back ever so slightly from the inside face (about + or - 5-10 thousandths) so they don't mar up the blade/ricasso when it's clamped. I have noticed that this leaves a small gap between the carbide and the blade so that if you're not careful the edge of a higher grit (thin) belt could potentially work its way in there when grinding plunges. When filing or grinding the shoulders of the tang you have to make sure both faces of the carbide are in contact with the file or belt to avoid possibly digging in at a angle with the front of the file (or edm stone etc.) on the forward stroke or the belt pinching in there. I would rather the carbide faces went completely to the edge to avoid this, as I just use he post-it notes anyway which would protest the blade.

You're also correct about the pins not being zero tolerance with just a tiny bit of wiggle room from side to side or up an down, which can make it difficult to freely slide both sides of the guide together and apart, but I've never had a problem with it binding when actually tightening it to a blade or getting it off.

When I got mine I tightly bolted the guides completely closed and then used my coarse DMT diasharp stone to carefully lap the faces together , so as long as the ricasso is close enough to being flat and parallel the carbide faces will be in line. I also always check with a precision square or flat edge when it's clamped to the ricasso to make sure the are completely inline, which hasn't been a problem. (If somebody else tried this, be careful to stay within at least 1/4" from the edges of the diamond stone as the grit in those area can be a a very slightly higher level since they aren't use or worn down as much, at least with the way I've used mine that is the case.) Don't ask my how I know lol

There was nothing wrong with the carbide faces when I received them, I just wanted the finish to be a bit smoother than the somewhat "chattery" finish from the surface grinder and to be absolutely positive they were in line when tightened. I want having some trouble on the first guard I was fitting and thought it might be due to the file guide faces not being in line, but later found out that the problem was due to the shoulders of the guard's slot not being radiused enough.


Here are the carbide faces after I lapped them smooth, as well as my fingers in the reflection:



Here's the carbide inset depth:


And a normal top view, just cause. You can also see the slight gap in between the carbide when fully clamped together:


(Don't mind the dings & scratches, they're from me, except for the small voids in the carbide which were there when I got it but they don't affect how it works.)


~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (Just some older videos of some older knives I've made in the past)
 
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One things than can be good or bad, is the carbide faces are set back ever so slightly from the inside face (about + or - 5-10 thousandths) so they don't mar up the blade/ricasso when it's clamped.


Paul, that's another good point I had forgotten about, but it's a big one for me, and I don't consider it a positive feature, but YMMV of course. I always use post-its or similar when clamping on a blade with any level of finish also, and with a guide where the carbide goes to the inside edge of each side, this seals well enough for nothing to collect in there. You raise a point also, that applies to all guides, which most aren't aware of; the guide doesn't guarantee you flatness across the tops of the carbide, it can be very helpful in this pursuit, however, especially when riding the carbide faces with a belt grinder, flexible or very coarse abrasives, can leave scratches or even remove significant enough metal in the work, below the carbide height to show up (especially in the guard shoulders with press-fit guards) as a very noticeable blemish. Don't think that the carbide guarantees you anything, and I feel that any extra gap in this area, just makes it worse.


Of course, it's only fair to mention: Any carbide "file guide" is probably better than none, although I put it in quotes because, the reality is, all carbide file guides, are murderous to files, and really shouldn't be used with good files at all. However, hardened steel file guides without carbide, can be used to great success for hand work, but don't hold up to use with powered abrasives.


You probably can't "go wrong" with any of the options, but the OP asked for opinions, and you know we've got some to give round here. ;)
 
and you know we've got some to give round here. ;)
lol...
here's a side by side for comparison
RKkoJEx.jpg
 
I was looking at the Riverside guide last night on their site and now after seeing Harbeer's picture as well, it looks as if that one would also leave a very slight gap between the carbide and blade (you can see the stainless ledge under the carbide on the inside), while Bill's looks like they go right up to the edge. Could anybody confirm this?


~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (Just some older videos of some older knives I've made in the past)
 
The steel guide from Riverside is in a League of it's own!! By far the best guide made by anyone.

I first bought the riverside and actually can't stand it. Tolerances on their production aren't that great. Least not the one i got. Loves to get stuck on me at the worse times. Went on and got one of the large bruce bump ones 2 years back though and LOVE it. night and day difference in quality between the 2. Been thinking of picking up one of these Behnke integral ones as well as it's mostly what i make.
 
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