Stitching groover

[NFN66]

I’m in the early stages of learning to hand stitch and have had a really tough time with my stitching grooves. I’m hoping some of you guys might be willing to help me out.

I have purchased 2 different stitch groovers...one is the Tandy Leather company variety and the other is an Osborn compass style. The Tandy groover works well sometimes, but seems to clog easily and is a pain to unclog. The Osborn is frustrating me because I can’t seem to get the hang of using it to smoothly run a continuous groove around curves. I probably just need lots of practice with it. I’ve completely screwed up some otherwise decent work because I can’t get a uniform, continuous groove going with this thing. Any tips on how to make nice grooves with these tools would be much appreciated.
Also, I’m interested in learning about any other types of stitch groovers that might be available and where I might purchase them. I have a friend who works in a local saddle shop who has a stitch groover that seems to be a superior design to anything else I’ve seen. However, he told me that it is ancient and he hasn’t ever seen one like if for sale anywhere. It is a wooden handle with two prongs protruding from it. One is the edge guide and the other has a cutting blade. The distance between them is simply adjusted with a wing nut. I’ve tried it out and it is much smoother and easier to use than what I have. I’d love to find a place to buy one if anybody knows where to locate one.
I’ve been practicing making knife sheaths and my skills are improving on each one I do, but the stitching grooves are definitely one of my weaknesses. I welcome any help you guys are willing to provide. Thanks!

 

[iamunique127]

i have a Tandy groover and experienced the same issues as you.

I can’t see your location on my phone. I live in Canada and bought a green handled groover/creaser at Lee Valley. The Lee Valley website doesn’t state it but it turned out to be a Kyoshin Elle which seems to be widely available in America. It works much better than the Tandy.

I find either of them works best when it is sharp. I strop mine opposite the cutting direction before each use. There are numerous instructional videos on YouTube.

I find that grooving around corners is a matter of lots of practice. I still have to do a few practices pieces before I groove my final products.

 

[JamesBro]

The one I have has the cutting head inline with the handle and 1 removable guide. It has a replaceable cutting head.
The way that works for me is without the guide. I draw a line with some old dull calipers I have for any detail lines and borders.
I run the stitch groover along my previous groove and its stays in line with a steady hand and pull. Just what works for me,
James

 

[NFN66]

Thanks for the replies. I’m definitely interested in better quality tools, so the Kyoshin Elle is on my watch list now. Keeping it sharp on a strop is something I need to pay more attention to as well.

And, James, I like your idea of using it without the guide as I think the guide is probably causing me problems when I don’t even have a smooth edge to start with. In fact, I’ve had my best results so far when I cut a freehand groove without the guide. Perhaps I should just ditch the guide unless I’m running a groove down a long straight edge.
Being new to this craft, I know I have a lot to learn and will probably screw up a lot of leather before I can produce nice results, but I appreciate all the help I can get to get me there quicker. My Buddy down at the saddle shop is a great resource, but I try not to bug him too much because his boss man probably isn’t happy about him giving me leather working lessons instead of building saddles.

 

[Robber58]

I have used the simple Tandy groovers for many years with great success. I keep 3 on my bench with different settings and they get used in almost every project. I have tried a lot of others, some quite expensive, and none are any better for me and many are worse. They really do need to be sharp as that will contribute to clogging and uneven grooves. New ones do not always come as sharp as they should be so a few minutes with a relatively smooth stone can make a lot of difference. The angle you hold it at when grooving can also affect how smooth and easily it cuts and turns corners. Most have a sweet spot you just have to find with practice. It is also important to have relatively even, uniform edges to enable nicely aligned grooves. If the edges are really rough or bumpy, you will see it in the grooves. They don't need to be finished edges, just uniform. Turning corners is hard for everyone to learn. My trick is to rotate the leather, not try to twist the tool around. I think you might find that will help you get much smoother curves with a bit of practice. Finally, practice is your friend with these and many other leather tools. Find cheap scrap leather and keep practicing until you fell confident. Consistency is your friend and you can't get that without practice. Hope this helps.
Randy

 

[Horsewright]

Same here. We've used the Tandy groovers in two different sizes and two different configurations for years. They are all we use. I too have tried some of the others, including the Osborne decades ago. I have heard the deal about the Tandy ones plugging up and so I'm gonna tell ya a story. Besides 3 or 4 with the guide I have one that is just a straight pull one, no guide. Yeas ago it rolled off the bench and fell onto the concrete shop floor. Snapped the blade right at the cutting hole. I rounded the sharp edges off so I could still use it and tried to order a new blade in the meantime. Well they don't make that blade anymore. I'm still using this one without a cutting hole. It leaves a good dent for a groove and works well. Meanwhile, my larger Tandy one quit cutting. Don't know if its plugged or dull or what. Don't much care as it still leaves a great impression and I motor on. Have three knives and sheaths here on the desk right now waiting to get shipped out. The stitching is below the surface, and these two groovers were used on them as well as all the sheaths I make. So I would say as long as you are making a good impression/groove does it matter if you are removing material or not? Its been my experience that it doesn't seem to or not.

This sheath was just finished using the two groovers described above. These are the two I use on all my sheaths.

 

[NFN66]

These are some really helpful replies. My work week is going to be quite busy this week, but I intend to get back to practicing on some sheaths when the weekend gets here. I suppose it’s not a bad idea to own a few backup grooving tools, so I think I’ll order another one today, just to give me something else to try. Also, going to work on regularly keeping them sharp.

Horsewright, that is perfect looking stitching and I wish to get mine looking that good. I’m surprised that your groove is just an impression as I can’t even tell the difference.

Another thing I’ve struggled with is getting my awl holes perfectly aligned. My friend at the saddle shop showed me how he cuts a groove on the front side and a corresponding groove on the backside, and then he runs the awl through both. I have no trouble doing that if I’m only going through a single thickness, but if I’m trying to get through three thickness...front, welt, and back, I find it pretty difficult to keep it lined up with that backside stitch line. I’m sure I’m just in need of lots of practice, but I’d like to hear how you guys address this. Thanks!

 

[Horsewright]

These are some really helpful replies. My work week is going to be quite busy this week, but I intend to get back to practicing on some sheaths when the weekend gets here. I suppose it’s not a bad idea to own a few backup grooving tools, so I think I’ll order another one today, just to give me something else to try. Also, going to work on regularly keeping them sharp.

Horsewright, that is perfect looking stitching and I wish to get mine looking that good. I’m surprised that your groove is just an impression as I can’t even tell the difference.

Another thing I’ve struggled with is getting my awl holes perfectly aligned. My friend at the saddle shop showed me how he cuts a groove on the front side and a corresponding groove on the backside, and then he runs the awl through both. I have no trouble doing that if I’m only going through a single thickness, but if I’m trying to get through three thickness...front, welt, and back, I find it pretty difficult to keep it lined up with that backside stitch line. I’m sure I’m just in need of lots of practice, but I’d like to hear how you guys address this. Thanks!

Thanks, the reason folks will often have several groovers is that they will keep them set at varying distances. For instance I use one set at a specific distance (the one mentioned above), that I use on sheaths, holsters, rifle scabbards etc. I use a different one on belts and leggings etc. The groove on the back side will work on some projects not so much on others. That pancake sheath above for instance. How would ya make the interior stitch lines on the backside?

 

[Robber58]

You are a brave man if you are attempting to push a sharp awl through 16 to 20 ounces of stacked leather. It can be done with a lot of effort and usually some serious wounds but I don't recommend it for day to day use. When I do use it, I make certain my awl is razor sharp and I run the blade on a paraffin block periodically. The reason for the sharp awl is obvious and the sharper the better. The wax serves two purposes. First, it makes it easier to push through the leather. When it is easier to push, it is easier to control the exit point in grooves. Secondly, it makes it easier to pull it out. You may have already discovered that pulling it out can be very difficult and puts your hands at risk as it recoils when it finally releases. Once these two things are in place, there are other steps you can take to help control the exit point. First, make certain that whatever you are using to hold the work is stable and holds it tightly. Bench clamp mounted stitching ponies are fine for most work but, in my experience, not stable enough when working with really thick pieces. You end up trying to hold the pony in place at the same time you are trying to control the awl. I built a stitching horse I sat on for that kind of work and it flat did not move. The second key to keeping the awl aligned is your position relative to the work. It is best if the work is positioned so you are not reaching up or down a lot. I set mine so it is about mid chest height. Then I have good leverage and can see both sides to ensure my awl is exiting where I want. I also stop just before exiting and look for a bulge in the leather where the awl is about to come out. If it is off some, I back it out just a bit and realign before pushing through. After awhile you will not have to look at every stitch. Muscle memory and feel will be all you need.

As I said above, I don't recommend it for really thick leather and I use a different approach for sheaths and some holsters. I groove the front side of the work and then use a stitching wheel to mark the position and spacing of each hole. I then put a harness needle with the eye removed into my drill press and use it to make the holes (I have also used a drill bit with some success). I have done it with the press running and not. Running seems to work best for me. The work is sitting on a wood block with a glued on piece of heavy leather which gives the needle a place to go when it exits. It is critical you hold the work flat and slowly push the needle through making certain it is going in straight. If not, you will end up with holes coming out the back erratically positioned. I sometimes have to use additional shims of some type under the work to hold it flat, as when a belt loop keeps it from laying properly. When done, I turn the work over and use a free hand groover over the exit holes, keeping a finger over the leather edge to help guide it. Then just stitch it up. Takes a lot less time to do than to describe.

All this said, life is a lot easier with a sewing machine as many people have told me.
Randy

 

[JamesBro]

after trial and error, randys method with the dril/needle is the same method I ended up with.
good write up.

(the needle I use is a machine needle, eye is in the tip. over 2.5 inches, it has a 2.2 mm base perfect for in a chuck. Tandy)

 

[NFN66]

Thanks for all the great information. I should have some time to work on a sheath tomorrow, so I’ll see if I can do a little better after reading your replies.
And, yes, I have been just trying to power through three thicknesses of leather with my awl. I don’t have a drill press, so I’m doing it by hand and have been aware of the potential to stab myself. I recently threw away a broken drill press that would have still been useful for punching holes, but it’s long gone now...I like the idea of having a thick piece of leather glued onto a slab of wood, so I’ll try that next. I might have to buy another press if that’s the best way to get it done.

 

[Robber58]

There is another option that can make things a lot easier. Tandy makes a relatively inexpensive set of diamond stitching chisels in assorted pitches. They will most likely not penetrate 3/8 inch of leather but will do 1/4 inch so you won't have as much left for the awl. I have some and have used them on a number of projects with good results. Just wax them up so you can get them out and hold them straight up vertically. Punch on a good surface so you don't mess them up if you do get through. There are more expensive ones from Weaver and others but for what you are doing offer no real advantages. You really only need one with 4 prongs and one with 2 for corners. Single ones can be useful but I have not needed them. Here is a link to the Tandy tools:

Craftool® Diamond Stitching Chisels1/8" (3 mm) Spacing / 4 Prongs

Made from 41xx steel, these chisels have incredible strength and toughness due to the case hardening process after the chisels are formed. Beautifully finished with a black electrophoresis coating to prevent surface corrosion and provide wear resistance. Used with our Poly Cutting Boards, these...

tandyleather.com

Randy

 

[Horsewright]

Thanks for all the great information. I should have some time to work on a sheath tomorrow, so I’ll see if I can do a little better after reading your replies.
And, yes, I have been just trying to power through three thicknesses of leather with my awl. I don’t have a drill press, so I’m doing it by hand and have been aware of the potential to stab myself. I recently threw away a broken drill press that would have still been useful for punching holes, but it’s long gone now...I like the idea of having a thick piece of leather glued onto a slab of wood, so I’ll try that next. I might have to buy another press if that’s the best way to get it done.

Just wait till ya stick that awl blade under a thumbnail or finger nail. Thats always fun! I'd say look around for another press but the stitching chisels that Randy is talking about do work very well.