Stone Sharpening Vs. Belt Sharpening?

S

Shaggy DA

Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
113
Okay, I've been sharpening knives using stones for MANY years. I'm by NO MEANS an expert though! With that said though, I've had NO troubles being able to get any knife I touch to a hair popping sharpness. I also LIKE using my stones (currently using a Lansky 5 stone guided set. I do NOT using the angle guide though. I simply like free handing it on my stones because it's therapeutic and I LOVE doing it. I've also used a couple of belt sanders (sharpeners) and have gotten far better results. I haven't gotten a proper strop to use yet, so the results might actually come out the same, I don't know yet. To me, I just don't like the belt sanders though. It's 'too' simple. Yes, you get AMAZING results from the convex grind but it's too....mechanical. Takes all the joy out of putting time into your blade. Does anyone else feel the same? What do YOU prefer? Guided knife systems, free handing on stones, belt sanders, or paper wheels?
 
Although I have fond memories of sitting with grandpa sharpening our knives with bench stones in the old days. :0) I never could get an edge like I can with my belt sander or paper wheels. With the time I save I can instead go fishing or better yet click around on the Blade Forum.
 
I have never used any power sharpeners or belts, and I spend a LOT of time sharpening with my stones, but half of my reason for sharpening is the joy of doing it by hand.
It's therapeutic for me.
And I'm not sharpening as a business, otherwise I may consider belts.
It's also hard not to convex your edges with belts right?
 
I started with a belt sander and have to say it is fast and fairly easy. Once I started getting expensive knives I was removing too much steel too fast. I didn't realize it until comparing blades side by side. I've since got a wicked edge and love how precise it is. Also little steel removal.
However, for cheap blades I sharpen for people I know, i use the belts. I'm just not happy spending an hour with the WE for a cheap knife.
 
I started freehand with stones then tried guided system (lansky & EP) and also for me it's therapeutic and I love it.
I think belts are, if not used properly, overheating steel with all the conseguence you can imagine expecially with japanese carbon steels where a temperature bigger than 180° will alter the temper of your edge.
 
basetta70 said:
I started freehand with stones then tried guided system (lansky & EP) and also for me it's therapeutic and I love it.
I think belts are, if not used properly, overheating steel with all the conseguence you can imagine expecially with japanese carbon steels where a temperature bigger than 180° will alter the temper of your edge.
Click to expand...

I don't know who told you that but it is very wrong. 180 degrees would only make a knife hard to hold on too but it would NOT have any effect on the temper. The blade would need to be held at temps of 300+ for a extended period to alter the steel microstructure.
 
I started sharpening at the age of 9 under my grandpas watchful eye,I just turned 56.I've tried about every stone out there.In 1984 I got 3 sets of paper wheels and have sharpened at for the food industry gun shows and about every where you can go.In the 90s I used belts grinders and began making knives .Over all the years I've heard about every argument about how to sharpen a knife there is.What i learned is use what works for you.I use my shop because of time.But i still love to sharpen on my stones.I've sharpen knives by the thousands over the years .Raise a burr up and learn how to go to a finer grit and work it till you get it where it works in the field.Abuse it and find out how it holds up and start over again,
 
Jason B. said:
I don't know who told you that but it is very wrong. 180 degrees would only make a knife hard to hold on too but it would NOT have any effect on the temper. The blade would need to be held at temps of 300+ for a extended period to alter the steel microstructure.
Click to expand...

I was referring to Japanese carbon steel (Aogami/shirogami etc) and Hitachi Metals published this http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/medias/sys_master/124_01_M_WE_D_en.pdf

And if you check you will find:
"Grinding
It is very important to avoid temperatures above 150°C once it has been hardened and annealed. Grinding the steel on a dry sharpening machine or belt sander is especially harmful its crystalline structure. We recommend using a water-cooled sharpening machine or sharpening
by hand using Japanese waterstones."

Maybe Hitachi is "very wrong" or you have in mind some other steel type.
 
That the problem with the US, we still use the standard system.

180 degrees Celsius is 356 degrees Fahrenheit. Which would be in the danger zone.
 
2beagles121 said:
I started sharpening at the age of 9 under my grandpas watchful eye,I just turned 56.I've tried about every stone out there.In 1984 I got 3 sets of paper wheels and have sharpened at for the food industry gun shows and about every where you can go.In the 90s I used belts grinders and began making knives .Over all the years I've heard about every argument about how to sharpen a knife there is.What i learned is use what works for you.I use my shop because of time.But i still love to sharpen on my stones.I've sharpen knives by the thousands over the years .Raise a burr up and learn how to go to a finer grit and work it till you get it where it works in the field.Abuse it and find out how it holds up and start over again,
Click to expand...

Thank you sir for your insight and knowledge. :) This answer couldn't have been better.
 
Uncooled belt sharpening stands a very good chance of overheating the edge. I'd say it's close to a guarantee. Most people won't notice, but it's still there. Cooled belts can give a very good edge, and many people use belts followed by burr removal with a stone by hand. In this case, the damaged metal is likely removed, if not completely, then enough that it's even less noticeable.
 
As with most sharpening techniques its in the process. Belt sharpening is likewise. Done without proper precaution will result in changing the structure along the apex itself. A very thin edge is most prone to damage. Using new belts at a very slow sfm along with very lite pressure gives a better chance of success. The softened steel can, many times, be removed with the burr as mentioned above. I use an old Pro-Cut 2 x 72 inch machine with a vs dc motor and a mist system to keep edges cool. Belt sharpening if done properly, is fast, accurate, effective and reproducible. I, of course, us a Bubble Jig to maintain a consistent sharpening angle.
PS I messed up quite a few edges on belts before I came to the above conclusions.

Most common carbon steels are tempered at 400 degrees or above so if one can maintain temperatures below this the edge will not be damaged. Check in your handy metallurgical book to find each steels lowest tempering setting.
 
My grandmother and aunt had a butcher shop in our front yard so I learned to sharpen blades at a very early age. I learned to sharpen on stones and got very good at it. People were always cutting themselves on my blades (not funny but still...)

Later, I bought Lanskys. Worked well and my bevels pretty well matched. Same with the DMT aligner and re-profiling went from days to hours.

I tried the paper wheels and couldn't believe how quick I could get a great edge on a long blade. Almost too doggone easy!

Belt sander for hard working convex edges. Also too doggone easy.

I have shaved with a straight for nearly 40 years so I have quite a collection of stones.

Bottom line is that they are all tools and the more tools that you have, it allows you to make the best choice for the situation.

If I'm heading out on a fishing trip and I feel the fillet blade is not up to par, I can get it hair popping sharp in less than a minute on the wheels.

My spare time is limited now and likewise very valuable to me. Still, I occasionally like to sit down with a blade and get lost in the music of steel and stones.
 
My grandmother and aunt had a butcher shop in our front yard so I learned to sharpen blades at a very early age. I learned to sharpen on stones and got very good at it. People were always cutting themselves on my blades (not funny but still...)

Later, I bought Lanskys. Worked well and my bevels pretty well matched. Same with the DMT aligner and re-profiling went from days to hours.

I tried the paper wheels and couldn't believe how quick I could get a great edge on a long blade. Almost too doggone easy!

Belt sander for hard working convex edges. Also too doggone easy.

I have shaved with a straight for nearly 40 years so I have quite a collection of stones.

Bottom line is that they are all tools and the more tools that you have, it allows you to make the best choice for the situation.

If I'm heading out on a fishing trip and I feel the fillet blade is not up to par, I can get it hair popping sharp in less than a minute on the wheels.

My spare time is limited now and likewise very valuable to me. Still, I occasionally like to sit down with a blade and get lost in the music of steel and stones.
 
I prefer sharpening by hand, using either a stone or diamond stick. Never really liked power tools and machines. When I'm in the forest, I'll still be able to sharpen my tools and knives. I think it is a skill that is easily reduced without practise, and it takes a while to become proficient at it to start with.
 
I love using stones, and I have for years, but I want to be able to get a quick, easy, convex edge on my work knives. (Sorry if this is going off topic) Does anyone know of a good system that won't overheat your blades, if that is a problem?
 
Fred.Rowe said:
As with most sharpening techniques its in the process. Belt sharpening is likewise. Done without proper precaution will result in changing the structure along the apex itself. A very thin edge is most prone to damage. Using new belts at a very slow sfm along with very lite pressure gives a better chance of success. The softened steel can, many times, be removed with the burr as mentioned above. I use an old Pro-Cut 2 x 72 inch machine with a vs dc motor and a mist system to keep edges cool. Belt sharpening if done properly, is fast, accurate, effective and reproducible. I, of course, us a Bubble Jig to maintain a consistent sharpening angle.
PS I messed up quite a few edges on belts before I came to the above conclusions.

Most common carbon steels are tempered at 400 degrees or above so if one can maintain temperatures below this the edge will not be damaged. Check in your handy metallurgical book to find each steels lowest tempering setting.
Click to expand...

Nevermind. Found it.
 
Last edited:
I started out on stones then upgraded to DMT stones.

Then 20yrs ago I bought a Sharpmaker and I still do not see a reason for a machine.

If I was sharpening as profession with a company. Then a machine wins.
 
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